Feeding from those with Psychological issues

[Craze]

This was brought up in a thread of Priests, and I really thought it deserved a discussion thread of its own. It's pretty much assumed by the majority of the community that our donors be psychologically as well as physically healthy. So what aer your opnions on those who choose to feed from Cutters, or others with varying psychological issues?

In the case of cutters, if they make the cuts themselves, is it feeding into the psychological issue behind their cutting, or is it taking advantage of something they need help with?

In the case of someone who is, say, depressed, is its simply taking advantage of someone who may have their own psychological demons to deal with?

[RKCoon]

Foosh, tricky one. Me, id have to say the idea of one feeding, espially sang, from someone, should be on the basis of trust first and foremost. there should be a close trust and freindship betweenthe vamp and donor, and, i think anyway, it should be a fully consentual, private thing between the two. Now it may also be that a vamp feeding from one with issues MAY (or just as easily may NOT) actually help - we are all very well aware of what we do to another we feed from ,especially sang. that draining, and often , actual energy exchange may prove benifitial to the donor as well - for example, its possible that some of the stresses or issues may be from an overabundance of energy, or types of energies, thats causing havoc on someone, and draining these off may give the person some breathing room, if nothing else.

Its something that would REALLY have to be a case by case basis, at the judgement and discretion of the vamp in paticular.

Lemme ponder it i may throw some more at it here.

[Valentina]

It would depend so much on the stability of the donor. Can we judge that?

[ChadSang]

My answer to the question is that if the person is seeing a therapist and is on the correct meds, there's a good chance there won't be any problem. Of course, like one said, this is a very complicated issue. I could elaborate more but I don't think this is where I need to say anymore on the subject.

With all of my encounters I have only had one psycho bitch. Other wise, I haven't had any problems with the donors I have had or have now.

[RevDevon]

in total agreement that although being a complicated issue it is to be taken in a case by case scenario

something that would be needed to be discussed with the said donor at the time ... and making the decision whether or not it would be just opportunity or explotation

[ChadSang]

Oh BTW, don't ever feed on someone's blood before asking them to go get an HIV test. Ask me how that happened to me.

[StolenGlance]

..how did that happen to you?

[Amathiess]

In this issue, I agree with Chad in that if the person is in thearpy and on medication then I don't see a problem with it. However, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find people who do not have mental health problems.

In the United States alone, there are 40 million people plus who have been diagnosed with mental illness (http://www.healthypeople.gov/Document/HTML/Volume2/18Mental.htm)
And the numbers increase every year.

While I agree that feeding from someone who has been deemed incompetent is unethical I do think that others that are aware of what is going on and have the capablitiy of making their own choice as to if they want to donate or not is fine so long as those feeding from such are in agreement of such.

This is one of those topics that is pretty touchy and I am glad that someone did bring it up so that it could be discussed!

[Camazotz]

Personally I would not feed from someone who is on any form of medication for psychological problems or indeed many drugs for other health issues for various reasons- both regarding their own health and my own.

However, I will say as a self-harmer (or previous one- depending on whether it can ever fully be 'gotten over') that making a conscious, informed decision to be a donor to others actually helped me to reduce the amount that I was self-harming, to the point where the ONLY times that I will cut are to feed another or for select magickal workings. That doesn't mean for one moment that I fully condone or agree with feeding from a cutter (it's not something I could do in good conscience myself), but in my personal situation I have to be honest that it was beneficial for me.

Cama

[Craze]

Oh BTW, don't ever feed on someone's blood before asking them to go get an HIV test. Ask me how that happened to me.

Why has no one else hit him with a newspaper and yelled NO SHIT!!! ???

[Craze]

in total agreement that although being a complicated issue it is to be taken in a case by case scenario

something that would be needed to be discussed with the said donor at the time ... and making the decision whether or not it would be just opportunity or explotation

But is a person who has been deemed "metally unstable" capable of making such a decision? I've watched vamps totally looked passed the fact that a prospective donor was severely unstable, to the point where they were unable to handle reality, in order to feed. Is that an issue of "doing what it takes to survive" or is it exploitation? In my opinion, its exploitation.

(Lady Amenti)
However, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find people who do not have mental health problems.

This is true, there are a large number of people who do have some form of mental health issue ( Ever hear the expression 'my therapist needs a therapist'?) But I think what it comes down to is, The severity of the issue. Obviously, if the person is at a point where they are incapable of coping with reality, then they should not be someone's donor.

In Cama's case, being a donor helped her with her self harm issue, but can we say the same for others? I knew a cutter who was a donor as well, and she used it as an excuse to hide her cutting from friends like me. Obviously this didn't help the situation, it made it worse, and it ended when I and a few other friends of hers confronted the vamp who we were under the impression was doing this to her. Then we realized what was going on and got her the help she needed... So, yes, its by a case by case basis. Personally, becuse of that specific situation, and one personal experience, I don't think I'll ever feed from someone mentally unstable again, it causes too many problems in an already complicated situation. Whether or not another vamp chooses to do it, should definatly rest with the vamp and donor in question and I can only hope they would use good judgement, rather than simply look aside because they need to feed.

[RKCoon]

My answer to the question is that if the person is seeing a therapist and is on the correct meds, there's a good chance there won't be any problem. Of course, like one said, this is a very complicated issue. I could elaborate more but I don't think this is where I need to say anymore on the subject.

With all of my encounters I have only had one psycho bitch. Other wise, I haven't had any problems with the donors I have had or have now.


In that alone, i see a big issue -feeding sang from someone taking medication. the saying "you are what you drink" holds especially true for sanguines - feeding from someone taking any form of mental medication spells disaster to the vamp, IMHO. whatever drugs the donor takes, while yes being broken down in the stomach (if not directly administered/injected) is STILL being carried thruout the donor via the bloodstream - meaning of you feed sang, that medication is now in you, even if in somewhat diluted amounts. NOT something id want flowing thru me -- but im fussy, i wont feed sang from anyone thats sick, or taking ANY form of drug, medication or otherwise. Psis have the definite advantage here - no risk of contracting desease or effects from chems if there is no direct contact or ingestion.

In short, i do NOT advise feeding from anyone under the influence of ANY form of drug, be they for benifitial purposes forthe donor or not.

Now, insofar as people being ever increasingly "diagnosed" with a ever increasing variety of mental "ilnessess", my PERSONAL attitude is that 85% of these diagnoses come from either A) shrinks not knowing what the fuck they are doing/pushing drugs/general incompetance in regards to the entire FIELD of psychology and mental health, or B) just as prevalent, people too damned eager to suscribe to some drug in the phony beleif that "it will make my life better". Bullshit. most of the "problems" out there are people unwilling these days to deal with life, and while this certainly is more prevalent with illicit drug abusers, this is also a VERY large problem with people thinking that drugs will make htem better people - when all itd REALLY take is an effort to live a better life on thier own damned part (the term i hear often is "escaping reality" - rather than DEALING with it). (sorry, not trying to rant, just stating a personal view - based on my own personal experiences from childhood. ill explain that later in a rant or something. )

Oh, and i imagine the testing bit is rather obvious, no? Vampire 101 - be DAMNED certain your food is clean before eating it, hell thats survival 101 for all of humanity.

[Amathiess]

I'm not sure if many understand the reason why some people cut or in some cases, scrape. I can speak from personal as well as educated experience of why the majority of people do this.

Who of us have had problems with the emotional pain we are going through? Not a single one of us can claim that the emotional pain at one time or another has been so bad that anything else that happened would be a godsend just to not feel that way emotionally.

Those who cut or scrape primarily do so because they cannot deal with the emotional pain any longer and the cutting / scraping helps them to transfer that emotional pain into physical pain which they find easier to deal with. Now, I am not condoning cutting or scraping. I am merely helping all of us to better understand why this happens.

Do cutters have a mental illness? One can say yes because they have to use tranferrance in order to deal with something else. Cutting / scraping can be controlled by psychotherapy / counceling. Those who cut / scrape do not have the coping skills they need in order to get them past the emotional pain they are feeling. Sometimes medication is needed to keep them from having panic attacks and or to help keep them calm while they are in counceling.

I hope this helps to clear up some of the reasons why this happens. Again I do want to state that I do not condone it. I am also happy to say that I have not scraped in 2 years. I have learned coping skills!

[RKCoon]

Ive heard the arguement before, that cutting and scraping needs to be controlled. to me, i dont see a whole lot of difference between that, and tattooing, piercings and so on. both of these cause damage to the body - which eventually heals - and does change the body from original form. To me, its nothing more than an effort bythe masses to "control what they veiw as different".

Now, as far as what effects we vamps we may have on peopl in distress - i know of many MANY vamps that use thier abilities to ease the pain and suffering of thier freinds -- just as i know many MORE that use thier gifts to worsen people. ive seen it many times, too many that i care to think about.

[StolenGlance]

I think this is a really important issue, especially because I've seen first hand the power that we have to confuse and worsen the situation..

A friend of mine was actually turned to cutting by a vampire that she allowed to feed from her..there are risks, and personally I would be too afraid of making the situation worse..perhaps because i've seen it first hand..

but..I also think a big part of the cutting issue itself is age..and maturity..

[kyuuketsuki_kurai]

I'm not sure if many understand the reason why some people cut or in some cases, scrape. I can speak from personal as well as educated experience of why the majority of people do this.

Who of us have had problems with the emotional pain we are going through? Not a single one of us can claim that the emotional pain at one time or another has been so bad that anything else that happened would be a godsend just to not feel that way emotionally.

Those who cut or scrape primarily do so because they cannot deal with the emotional pain any longer and the cutting / scraping helps them to transfer that emotional pain into physical pain which they find easier to deal with. Now, I am not condoning cutting or scraping. I am merely helping all of us to better understand why this happens.

Do cutters have a mental illness? One can say yes because they have to use tranferrance in order to deal with something else. Cutting / scraping can be controlled by psychotherapy / counceling. Those who cut / scrape do not have the coping skills they need in order to get them past the emotional pain they are feeling. Sometimes medication is needed to keep them from having panic attacks and or to help keep them calm while they are in counceling.

I hope this helps to clear up some of the reasons why this happens. Again I do want to state that I do not condone it. I am also happy to say that I have not scraped in 2 years. I have learned coping skills!

There are many many many reasons that people cut. Yes, that is one of them, but there are numerous other reasons. Common reasons include changing emotional pain into physical pain due to being unable to cope with the emotional (the one you mentioned), wish to self-nurture which is when the cutting isn't done for the pain or the cutting itself but rather having something to take care of afterwards, attention-seekers (many people assume that all cutters are like this but it's actually not all that common), a form of OCD in which the ritualistic action of the cutting soothes a compulsion, to stop/cause dissociation, and also occasionally you find people that do it purely to feel pain or see blood.
Self-injury of any sort has now been given its own diagnosis (Self-mutilation Syndrome), but is more often a listed as a symptom rather than a main diagnosis. It is considered a mental illness, and really should be treated as such. Especially, since, often, the cuts start out small and relatively harmless, but as time goes on, the small cuts no longer suffice and the cutter resorts deeper, more dangerous cuts. Accidental death from a cutting episode is scarily common in those who have been cutting for more than a certain amount of time.
One of the reasons it's such a debate is because if you feed from them while they are still trying to stop cutting, then you're making it harder for them to stop (whether they agree with that or not), and if you feed from them after they stop, you are risking causing a relapse.
As for the people that feel they don't need to stop... Well... That's an issue all of its own, but considering all the dangers and other issues involved, I wouldn't recommend aiding in this belief.

[Preist]

Have been waiting a while before i replied to this

i know a few cutters that dont have any problems mental illness or not but it is still something that needs to be looked at for what ever reason the person is cutting and in most cases its not a healthy aproach for anyone. save the tears and snott on this one its my opinion and anyone cutting them selves up needs a helping hand with things were they class it as an ilness or not there harming them selves and that is not healthy were it be cutting burning scraping or not and ok its not harming anyone else or so you would think not that anyone else cares or anything like that for selfish reasons.

i know that many in the comunity take advantage of cutters again my opinion that if there doing it anyway why not well shit on me for this one mabey its because i care a lil for others may not seem like it but its there deep down so i refuse to feed from cutters especialy those with mental illness or who are on Meds and its not just because of the taste its because of the empathy that comes through with it.

there are many other less harmfull methods out there that do not involve masive scars or excess bleeding such as lancetts and low and behold even if its a small cut a few can be made doing less damage than a razor blade and they come steralised as well.
i have seen cutters take advantage of the fact some one is feeding from them by making large gestures of deep cuts just so someone can feed its not big nor cleaver if someone has to justify there pain or otherwise with cuts then why not help them with things instead of taking advantage of the fact

again all my opinion but i know its shared with others here as i have been asked about it numerouse times.

i had a good freind with bi polar disorder who would cut and scrape frequently and i would be the first one she would call to help her out as often it went to far being vamp and with full amounts of blood in front of me i did not hesitate to clean and bind wounds but the one thing i did hesitate on was feeding why becuase i dont take advantage of situations like that but then who am i to say anything on this

Preist

[Alyushia]

I would never feed on someone that I felt was incapable of making a rational decision to participate. It must be fully consentual, or to me it is a form of rape.
Also..do I really want to be taking in the energies of someone who is so mentally ill that they do not understand the ramifications of what they are doing? I don't.

Now:
I am a cutter who ha snot cut in two and a half years.

The thing that makes cutting addictive (and it IS an addiction by the way) is that when one cuts it releases endorphins into the bloodstream, which are similar to opiates. This elevates the mood of the cutter.
PLEASE do not start cutting, as it is VERY difficult to control or stop once you start....like any addiction.
This may make it more attractive to be a donor, giving them more reaso to cut.

I have wondered...do you think that a vampire feeding from a cutter would get enough endorphins from the blood to affect the vampire?? Maybe a stupid question.

[Craze]

Its possible..after all, if you feed from someone with drugs in their bloodstream, you injest those drugs as well..the same with diseases... it stands to reason that a vamp would get at least a small amount of endorphins

[gypsy mouse]

*bites own tongue, and likes it*

[darkangel5778]

I feel too that caution needs to be taken when feeding, I agree with those that take these precautions...........it is easy to manipulate and take advantage of those who are ill...........however...........is it not generally accepted that we take care of those we draw off of? We do need to err on the side of caution, make sure we are not preying on the weak minded...........and I can say this because I myself at one point cut......though the last incident took place several years ago, I do know that I had no problem giving though it was more the high I received being cut than anything else..........a reason I make damned sure that who I draw from is not that way..............it gives them a reason and an excuse to continue to do so...........

[Alyushia]

We (I believe) have a responsibility to care for those who give us what we need.
It is our responsibility to to control where, when, how, and from whom we feed.

[Alyushia]

I just noticed that rhymed! That was totally unintentional guys! *laughs at myself for being an idiot*

[Craze]

Ha! She's a poet and didn't even know it!

*Slinks away before people start throwing rotten fruit*

[Alyushia]

*Throws a rotten tomato at Craze*

[dreamguardian1]

This was brought up in a thread of Priests, and I really thought it deserved a discussion thread of its own. It's pretty much assumed by the majority of the community that our donors be psychologically as well as physically healthy. So what aer your opnions on those who choose to feed from Cutters, or others with varying psychological issues?

In the case of cutters, if they make the cuts themselves, is it feeding into the psychological issue behind their cutting, or is it taking advantage of something they need help with?

In the case of someone who is, say, depressed, is its simply taking advantage of someone who may have their own psychological demons to deal with?

In my case its still feeding, i have recently started cutting again JUST to get past what i am going through and its not psychological issues that I have atm. Using the Termy mentally healthy is vast and we can look at anyone and say that there is an issue somewhere, someone has a fear of Spiders, crawl spaces, close quarters etc those are all psychological issues. Protecting yourself from abosrbing some of those issues for psychic feeders is A BIG ISSUE which im still pondering on.

The biggest problem I have is in how to not feed those negative energies that they have because then it becomes kinda like a part of me and its just so overwhelming sometimes but thats in a whole nother thread i started earlierl

[Lost]

It’s all up to one’s morality and at the end of the day what we do we have to live with. There can’t always be a clear line between what is right and wrong with regards to feeding on someone with a psychological condition the onus is always going to be on the individuals and subject to consent. It may not be desirable or widely accepted but its also not for everyone either.

[Craze]

It’s all up to one’s morality and at the end of the day what we do we have to live with. There can’t always be a clear line between what is right and wrong with regards to feeding on someone with a psychological condition the onus is always going to be on the individuals and subject to consent. It may not be desirable or widely accepted but its also not for everyone either.

*Bumped to get some of the new members into this thread*

But is someone who is depressed/cutting/suffering anxiety attacks/insert generic psych issue here capable of making informed consent? How many vamps (Sang) out there are willing to say "Oh, s/he's just depressed, it's not that serious. S/He can still donate."? or "Oh, they cut, that's perfect, at least they won't shy away from it!"? When does it stop being mutually beneficial (The vamp being fed, and the donor being cared for, loved, and helped if they need it), and turn into exploiting someone?

[darkangel5778]

I agree.............it is our responsibility to take care for, love, and be resposible for our donors..............I mean if a donor falls and seriously hurts themselves (or oher physical injuries) would we not take them or encourage them to get help for it? psychological disorders while harder to see I feel at least should fit into the same catagory............they need help and I am not trying to get them help, making ME part of their problem.
in taking from them if I am hurting them or encouraging their psychological disorder to flourish..........then I am not caring form them properly or making sure they are safe............it wouldbe the same if htey cut themselves on my account and hit something and did nothing about it in my humble opinion...........