Its time to decide.

[incubus]

Its time for me to decide what to do, what to give up on and what to focus on.

Nox for along time served as a crutch, a safe place , a refuge for me. But that time has long since past.

Pranism, while the going my way is great would only consume my time on something I need no help in, and after spending thousands of dollars and 5+ years of my life helping others I have put in my fair share.

Pranism I plan to put on the market, I plan to sell it, database but no script licenses. Wich I can easily sell pranism for $1500 +

Nox on the other hand is not such a simple solution. Nef has shown she no longer cares about it, but to sell it I would have to be more selective as there is more info on it and private matters.

So I am in the air of what to do with Nox, or how to handle its change over to someone else. As I no longer want it, or any part of it. Perhaps visit as a member once in a blue moon. But besides that I want no other responsibilities of it.

So with Nox I am going to let members discuss possible and viable solutions for it. But its is time for me to leave all communities online that are not going to better myself. I have focused on others for far to long.

[Alyushia]

While I am dismayed about the idea of changes in Nox, you must take care of yourself first.

[incubus]

Well the solution for Nox would be one that is with in the community. I owe it that much.

[Vicereine]

I am more than willing to contribute if i can. Im afraid i have almost no technical knowledge of how to deal with the day to day maintenance of the site let alone improvements etc. but i would be willing to contribute an amount every month to its upkeep and ofcourse assist in any other way i can with the running of it.

Nox has been like a home to me in my short time returned, i would hate to lose it... if others are willing towork with me i would like to help hold on to this place.

V

I wanted to add here, a huge thankyou to Incubus, whatever has transpired here in the times before and the time i was not here, you still have built a place that feels safe. There is a sense of family here even with the fracas and the tension. I never got the chance to know you Incubus, but I sincerely wish that your future in real life holds love and light for you. Im not a naturally 'fluffy' person, but i wanted to tell you im sorry for your loss. If there is anything in my power to do so to assist you, or help hold this place together, I shall do so.

Thankyou for what you built Incubus, may your future hold the safety and comfort that this place holds for me.

[incubus]

Well , Nox would never be sold to an outside person. I would close it first.

But the following are what has to happen.
1. Someone(ones) to buy it.
2. Must agree to keep the basic format (its what they love after all)
3. Style (lay out is not going to be included, its Nef's its sacred).
4. Scripts do not come with the deal
5. Database comes with it
6. New owner must understand how to get hosting and operate.
7. I would help some in the change over.
8. Domain may or may not be included.
If these do not happen , then Nox will simply have to go unkept. But I can no longer do it.

[Vicereine]

I dont have a huge amount I can put up front.. but i can put up a set amount each month. Im happy to help with modding etc.. and im about most of the day most of the time.... so i can offer that. But as stated, Im a techinical idiot so i need someone else technically minded to come in with me... how much would you need to buy nox???

im very serious about helping with this.

[RevDevon]

While it saddens me to think of the possibility of no Nox ...It is something that I can not think of undertaking for several reasons primarily lack of funds to do anything with as well as no tech skills .... Just burnt out to comprehend for the years of abuse of recreational pharmeceuticals and now having to take so many to make up for it .... But if so shall someone here that is member does anything with it let it be known that I shall be here for support and guidence .....and Rob its been a bit since we have chatted get ahold of me or let me know when is good time to connect

[incubus]

Well with luck , someone else will have the money , and patience. I just can not do it any more bro.... we both know this time been coming faster and fast.

[kyuuketsuki_kurai]

I don't suppose there's much to say to this. I don't have the coding knowledge to run a site of this size. Nor do I really have the money to do so either, so I guess I'll have to take whatever happens.

[incubus]

Well , with luck a small group of acceptable people will come together, and take it.

[Vicereine]

sigh....... well my offer still stands. however, without someone with the tech knowledge then I to will have to deal , as they say. Whatever happens, Incubus, thankyou for all you have done.

[incubus]

Well , give people time to discuss, plot and plan.

Tech is a main thing, for instance I have a client paying me $150 sign in, $100 a month, $150 a week ad, just to 'watch' then $60 an hour to code.

But not all sites need that type of support.

[dreamguardian1]

Hi everyone,

Well i dont post often cause im very busy with school and issues in real life, but i do monitor the boards and get emails and responses. Im saddened to see you go, but I do understand how RL can kick you in the butt. I am willing to help out each month. Maybe start up a paypal account and have members donate to it each year if they can. I am a full time student so naturally im not the richest person in the world but im willing to help out each month with what i can or sum up a little each month and make a one time donation each year of what each month would be. My feelings is that this is a community forum and the community where feesible and able should be able to put back into it. As for ownership, what about the current people who review applications for membership, what about Eclecta, or Rev, they have been a very active voice here and always helpful.

[stainless]

Inky how much are you talking about for nox?

Ballpark figure, how much to keep Nox running? I have no clue on tech but I might be able to help financially. gotta love those tax rebates.

[incubus]

Well ballpark , $500 (with out domain an scripts)
Forum script cost $85 for a year or $160 life time
Gallery $60
Monthly costs currently $45 , and can run up to $300 depending on the set up you run the site on.

I used to run it on a $300 a month one for some time, and wow it ran good lol.

[darkangel5778]

in everyones life there are tougher and tougher decisions that one must make. Like Vicererine I too have a lot of the day at home, so I do not mind myself. As much as we might not like it, we very well may have to attempt to collect a small fee during certain set time frames, ie monthly, quarterly, or annually. So long as the fee is agreed upon by everyone, and is reasonable, I think it might work, even for us who are a little.....hwo shall I say it financially thin. As for a tech genius.......I am sorry.......little tapped out in that area. I know you need help in that area...my only suggesstion would be this.........what if you picked out certain people and taught them only ONE thing to be responsible for, it should not be that hard so long as the group of people work together for the better of the whole as a group of nox. I mean I am not sure how long it would take to teach or how easy some of the things would be.........but it is the only thing I could suggest :o :D

[darklin]

Im a tech retarded but im more than willing to learn and do my part and be here with asmuch financial support as i can..
You built the place i call my home and id like it to stay that way.Without the time you have allready given to help so many others Inky we wouldnt be here..

[Malcaius]

such terrible timing... *Sigh* theres nothing i can do to save nox, i dont have enougth knowledge to run it and i deffinetly dont have the money with a baby on the way... sorry.

[stainless]

Well thats only about £400, so it might be do-able...

not sure about £150 a month running costs... and I'm terrible at organising cash, even tho I get enough. hmmmm

Must think about this, would hate to see this place go.

[incubus]

As I said the minimum for the site monthly is about 45 to have the speed, sizes it needs on a quality host.

[Camazotz]

Worst case scenario... we ALL love nox, I would hope that if we had to move to a free forum like so many other sites that we could see past that and remember that it's the people and our community that are the most important thing.

I would come online to talk to you guys ANYWHERE, it's just been a bonus all this time that it's been on such a lovely site, with beautiful graphics... whatever happens we only lose that community if we let it happen.

*will think what I can do though*

Cama

[Merticus]

Well we're already handling three domains monthly through Network Solutions and a forum of our own (smaller membership base and PHP platform w/highly modified scripts - always wanted to look into VBulletin though), not to mention the now over $3.5k investment into the VEWRS/AVEWRS with more coming down the road, and our monthly costs for operating the House. I could speak with some of the others as to their opinions on the matter... if we were talking the absorption of monthly fees/hosting to keep the site running seamlessly that would be very manageable at $45, etc.; but I take it you have different ideas in mind as to any such transaction or transfer.

I lurk on a number of forums and while NOX has had a golden period, some instability, and even lulls over the years, I can honestly say that taken as whole the intellectual level of discussion and lack of fluff here is among the best of the VC. It would be a shame to lose this community; everyone drifting off their own ways.

[Bella]

i do have skills and some money...
let me know.

[Camazotz]

Thanks Merticus

[Lauren]

I'm pretty sure the 45 dollars is only for hosting... which wouldn't remain at that cost long with the scripting, and size of the database. There would also be the yearly costs of the domain (usually not much) the cost of the software license which right now is 160 a year, and from my experience software companies such as vBulletin and Invsion Board change those fees at their whim so this should be expected to rise in cost also.

45 dollars a month is only one part of it, but to run the site and actually keep it moving and flowing, will be considerably more.

[Alyushia]

This is the best forum I have found for mature, intellectual discussion.
I already feel as if this is a haven for me, free of the games that go on at other sites. I am so happy I finally found this site/
It would hurt me deeply to lose this place, or those qualities if we did manage to keep a site up.

I am compute illiterate...truly. I wish I could help in that area, but am totally useless.

I can contribute a small amount of money each month to the operating costs...it would be small however.
The thing is, if we get enough people contributing small amounts it could turn into enough money to do what is needed.

There has to be a way of keeping the qualities that make this board what it is today even if the appearance and software changes. Those things are not important to me...the quality of mature discussion and refusal to sink to the level of so many of the other boards is.

I wish I knew how I could help more.
I am home a great deal of the time if my time would help...but that is really all that I can think of that I can contribute.

(Damn I wish I was good at coding)

A.

[RKCoon]

THis, i have to say, isnt surprising. it hasnt been that much a secret that out illustrious leader has been wanting out for a considerable time now -- but would it be nox with out our Inky? i dunno. but, ive seen this board change a LOT in the last two years... not all changes ive liked.

Now, while i certainly dont want to see the wealth of information weve accumilated here lost -- it may be time for an all new direction. so - which way do we want to go?

[Lauren]

"Cart before the Horse"

[Lauren]

Rikk and I have a server sitting here all ready to put a site on. It's a large server with much space and high cpu, and would handle Nox quite nicely. We both are well equipped to run and maintain a website. We already have the server so it would not cost us anything we are not paying now, aside from the software, which we can arrange also.

I personally have a "storage" site which I use only for calling info from, such as to offer personal playlists to members, who either by posting points or donation to Nox, would be able to purchase their own playlist which I would load on the "storage" server. That type of thing.

I'm not looking to "change" Nox and would be quite happy to maintain it, financially and technically, if the current staff would continue the administration.

I would also be willing to provide a new skin/layout since this one will no longer be available. We would be able to do this, as early as next week, no later than the following.

[incubus]

I am currently just watching, letting the members choose.

I sit unbiased.

[Alyushia]

Thank you to Lauren and Rikk.
I know you are capable of doing this as both of you have experience having your own sites.

I believe you also have access to someone who could help with the tech aspects, is that true?

I also know that on the other sites you have tolerated no disrespect and have been vigilant in maintaining them as drama free.
If you would be willing to take this on, I think it would be a very good thing for Nox., because you would maintain the high quality we are used to now.

As I said, I can contribute a little toward the cost every month (not much, but maybe it will help!)

[Lauren]

Most of the tech aspects I can handle myself, but for those things that are over my head I have a technical admin who helps a great deal.

I do not want the administrative side of it, that is best left to the admins we have now, and the moderators we have now. They're doing fine and have done fine so why fix what ain't broke?

It appears what we DO need is someone to host it, take on the financial aspects and maintain the scripting. That, I can do.

I do not want to be anyone's "leader".

[incubus]

THis, i have to say, isnt surprising. it hasnt been that much a secret that out illustrious leader has been wanting out for a considerable time now -- but would it be nox with out our Inky? i dunno. but, ive seen this board change a LOT in the last two years... not all changes ive liked.

Now, while i certainly dont want to see the wealth of information weve accumilated here lost -- it may be time for an all new direction. so - which way do we want to go?
Interesting thought, I believe neither will suffer , neither me nor Nox.

Me and Nox have had out time, we have helped each other and grown apart, I have left more valued things behind and lost them.

I will admit I care about Nox, if not I would have just sold to an offer I had not to long ago for 3k. But I did not know the person and I want to atleast believe I am leaving Nox in capable hands.

Once I am gone, my account can be deleted. But till then I do want make sure what I been part of at least shows signs of continuing on better then with me here.

[Alyushia]

I guess it would depend a great deal on whether the admins would be willing to continue on doing the same great job they have been.

I happen to know you Lauren, and I know you are not power hungry...that you would not do this to become leader.
I believe you would want Nox to continue on it's present course.

The more I think about it, the more I think this may be a viable solution.

[Lauren]

Interesting thought, I believe neither will suffer , neither me nor Nox.

Me and Nox have had out time, we have helped each other and grown apart, I have left more valued things behind and lost them.

I will admit I care about Nox, if not I would have just sold to an offer I had not to long ago for 3k. But I did not know the person and I want to atleast believe I am leaving Nox in capable hands.

Once I am gone, my account can be deleted. But till then I do want make sure what I been part of at least shows signs of continuing on better then with me here.
Incubus, I hope you stay on, at least keep your account and stop in when this place can be a comfort to you, or at least a place to visit old friends. I've only known you since the night I joined nox but I can tell you those first PM and IM conversations revealed an amazing man and I'd be very sad to lose you. That, coming from a newbie. I know you'd be horribly missed by those who've known you longer.

You're an amazing man and I hope to continue knowing you.

[Lauren]

I guess it would depend a great deal on whether the admins would be willing to continue on doing the same great job they have been.

I happen to know you Lauren, and I know you are not power hungry...that you would not do this to become leader.
I believe you would want Nox to continue on it's present course.

The more I think about it, the more I think this may be a viable solution.
Thanks Sweetie. Power hunger, in my opinion, is a fast track to a lot of people being hurt, not the least of which is the person seeking the power. I'd rather have Nox remain free of such and be the great place it is.

It's obvious the present admins care deeply for Nox, and I'm confident they would continue to offer their support and guidance if someone can offer the financial support and technical support.

[Lauren]

... and if they refuse...

I'll BITE 'em!!! *laughs*

[Alyushia]

I wish I knew someone who was rich.

[incubus]

Please remember, for anything to happen majority have to agree.

As for someone rich. I suppose its all in your definition.

[Lauren]

Ya know? we dont have to be rich nor do we need someone rich.

the initial cost is the highest, and after that it should only take 50 to 100 a month. That might seem a lot to one person but if 5 people could donate 10 a month, and not even the same people each month, it would cover it.

whatever is donated above that, assuming more donated than just 5 people, it could be put in a bank account for the next year's fees for the software license, or the renewal of the domain name.

It really wouldn't be that hard for any of us, even if we donated once every other or once every third month.

It's not hopeless Alyushia and I know how hard it is for most of us to lose things we love.

It'll be okay one way or another. I promise.

[RKCoon]

Power hungry, ive noted, is a desease that has started to seep into this board as well -- and what happens to the administration will have a direct influence as to who decides to stay - and who decides to follow Inky's example and bid a fond and final farewell to this place.

[incubus]

Power hungry, ive noted, is a desease that has started to seep into this board as well -- and what happens to the administration will have a direct influence as to who decides to stay - and who decides to follow Inky's example and bid a fond and final farewell to this place.
If you recall that is the reason I brought nox back last time, calean or who ever his name was tried power plays.

I am a softy for Nox lol.

[RKCoon]

Your Condemned to Nox!!!! lol. Seriously tho -- i dont know what this place would do without you, its already sorely missing a number of key members as it is. One can hope tho...

[kyuuketsuki_kurai]

Well... I've been looking around a little, and actually there are free codes available. Such as the one my stepdad works with daily. Technically, if you know what you're doing you only end up paying for various types of space. Domain, databases, and such. I'm going to look into learning the coding part of all this, and it may be possible to do this, if someone (or multiple someones) are willing to front the costs.
I've run smaller sites before, and I have access to plenty of learning materials. Plus, my stepdad works in coding and runs a forum site that is set up rather similar, so I can get help where I need it.
Let me know if anyone is willing to front costs, and I'll let you know how my search on the rest of it goes.

[Lost]

Cost wise I would be happy to contribute, I don't have the tech knowledge generally and haven't been around here all that long. But I am willing to front some of the costs.

[Preist]

Ok so i left

but with all that i have been hearing the last day or so i thought i would come back in for a few words.

Inky dude i know you love nox and hate it at the same time i can only imagine the links it has to you in so many levels and some times we have to clear the slate to get on with things in our lives but as long as thats all it is.

through some hard times you have been there for me giving advice and generaly bringing my spirits up for that all i can do is thanks you and let you know if there is anything within my remit to do for you let me know and its done.
Nox brought alot of us together as a home but with everything in life such are families that they will go off and do there own thing
i see some have put forward to save Nox and that is a thankful thing while i am not here it dosent mean to say that i still dont love for the fact of what nox stands for to alot of people that are close to me

but more ot the point Inky do what you need to dude some times in life i know its just the time to fly and if anyone holds that aginst you thats there problem you gave me sanity and a home to come to when things werent right in the world and advice that will stay with me to keep that

only thing is just keep in touch once in a blue moon at least no matter were you like it or not theres always love in this place for you

take care dude

Robb

[stainless]

I'll help financially, I'm useless at the tech side but I have a bit of spare cash so if it helps, it's Nox's.

[MLE]

Rob, I am very sorry to hear of your loss and your decision. I understand though. *hugs* I will miss you when you go, and I hope you will be happier..

Just as before I am willing to do all I can to keep this place going.. I don't have much money, and I don't have all the know how, but I have the heart for this place that I have always had. I know that's not much at all, but it's all I've got, and I am more than willing to give that freely.

[Valentina]

I'm computer illiterate but could help out with a small donation each month.

I would hate to see Nox go.

I've only been here for a short time, but really like the site.

I'm sure Lauren and Rikkar would do a fine job. That's very generous of them to offer.

[darkangel5778]

I believe that with the help of those that can do the technical aspect, the generous offer that lauren has made, rikkar and bella, I think perhaps NOX will be able to continue as it should. Perhaps members being able to conritbute at least once or twice a year. I understand what one has said concerning a child, I have one myself and we are trying for another one atm, so some may not be able to contribute,(I can every once in a while...)but if enough of us can I believe the site can be saved.
Also I have searched a bit myself and afound that there are sites that teach you how to make a very simple site, my hubby and I made one and it gave a VERY simple step by step process to make one, and I did not have to learn coding (although it is very important and can make things easier lol) but they have templates, and this and that.............
since I can make sites through my service provider, it would might be another thing we could do, it is just empty space anyway that I am already paying for..........I found that out yesterday cause I rememebered that when my daughter was born we made one having links and everything even had animated thingies (have no clue what they are lmao)
another suggestion is to have a banner.......and yes I know there will be groans but please hear me out...........I rana site once, and only had banner space at the very bottom of the page. They helped pay for a lot of the upfront and differing costs and made it a lot easier on my wallet.

[ChadSang]

I, for one, feel very sad at this news. However, I do understand Inky and wish you all the best.

[Jevea]

I just do not know what to say. I am so computer dumb I would not even know where to start. As for supporting with the cash I will do what I can. Some months it may be on the low side. I know I have not been around here long but I do love the place. As others have said...I shall say also...Inky do what you have to. Life can be a bitch sometimes and you don't need any added stress.

[kyuuketsuki_kurai]

1. Someone(ones) to buy it.
Understandably, we'd like to have a cost figure for what you're looking for here before we agree to anything.
2. Must agree to keep the basic format (its what they love after all)
I'm assuming you mean the general idea of the site? Vampire Community and all that? If that's the case, then, yes, it will be done.
3. Style (lay out is not going to be included, its Nef's its sacred).
Yet again, explain a little what you mean by "style". I've no problems setting up a new layout.
4. Scripts do not come with the deal
Fine.
5. Database comes with it.
Understood.
6. New owner must understand how to get hosting and operate.
I've run other sites before, though it's been a little while. I'm more than willing to pick up and relearn what I have to.
7. I would help some in the change over.
I would like full information on how you're going to help, so I know what to expect.
8. Domain may or may not be included.
I'd also need to know your decision on this before I can go any further.

Also, I'd like to know what kind of copyrights, if any, you actually have for Nox. If these copyrights exist, they would have to be included obviously, and with documentation showing the transfer of ownership, as well.

[incubus]

Understandably, we'd like to have a cost figure for what you're looking for here before we agree to anything.
I stated, $500 for database. Out side people have offered more, but I want it to stay with in Nox.
I'm assuming you mean the general idea of the site? Vampire Community and all that? If that's the case, then, yes, it will be done.
That and the staff, if they choose to stay keep their current roles.
Yet again, explain a little what you mean by "style". I've no problems setting up a new layout.Style is the entire lay out. It is Nef's plus it is special to me but owned by Nef with only I allowed to use.

I would like full information on how you're going to help, so I know what to expect.I would help them reset up the database in new forum. Depending on who and their level of knowledge it the amount of help I would give.

I'd also need to know your decision on this before I can go any further.This one is also part of me protecting Nox, remember last time I tryed to entrust it to someone? I want to keep the url incase that happens again.

Remember if the wrong person got it, people would ask me to step it, fact of life. And thus far the only one I would trust with the url is Rev, And Cama.

Also, I'd like to know what kind of copyrights, if any, you actually have for Nox. If these copyrights exist, they would have to be included obviously, and with documentation showing the transfer of ownership, as well.I have no 'copyrights besides the ones basic for all sites in owning their content. And their lay out (although Nef owns the lay out.)

[kyuuketsuki_kurai]

This one is also part of me protecting Nox, remember last time I tryed to entrust it to someone? I want to keep the url incase that happens again.

Remember if the wrong person got it, people would ask me to step it, fact of life. And thus far the only one I would trust with the url is Rev, And Cama.


I remember this all too well, and it's part of what I'm trying to avoid. I have no interest in starting some sort of rivalry with you down the road, if you decide you want your site back. I'm doing this to keep my home of the past years safe and available to all who have become part of this family, and that includes you. I'd be more than happy to let you stay a member, and should you decide you want Nox back, then I would gladly do exactly what we're doing right now.
However, if you want to transfer the site's ownership and all, then I firmly believe the url can go with it.
This is transfer being done with your approval, and to take away the url would strongly hurt whatever site we did create. It would end up looking like a rip-off of your site, especially since the layout and such would change.

[incubus]

No, due to the Nox url would infact point to the new.

I am fair, but I also want to protect Nox. I hope how ever this turns out I am not forced to do as I did before. But when past members coming to me and asking me and begging me to do something I can not refuse.

While I trust few I do care about the many. The url would point or state that the new url is such and such.

And it would not look like a rip off since it would have all the posts, threads and such as it has now.

[kyuuketsuki_kurai]

Well, as of right now, things are being discussed, and I will get back to you.

[incubus]

There are many discussions going. This is far from easy but most be done.

I have another half hour before my 'normal' job but I may be back early when they fire me for taking 2 days off for dog death leave. Not that I need that job any more. I make more in my spare time.

[Alyushia]

I truly don't care who takes it over, as long as the character of the place remains the same. I will also donate the little bit that I am able to no matter who (or whom) takes it over.
I just want it to stay as close to the place it is now as possible...meaning intelligent, mature, and pretty much drama free.

[RevDevon]

Well for myself same as Inky stated watching whats going on ...and believe it is for the members to decide and discuss for now ...I'm sure the 3 of us shall discuss as well ...

for Myself as many of you are aware the fact of being involved in the VC both online and of for 30+ yrs I have basically retired from both other then here at Nox ...Though occasionally advise others

I have no plans of leaving Nox and shall continue in the role if that is desired ... I don't post like others due to the fact of health and such ...I take numerous medications and hate typing ..LOL..

for those that are new keep in mind that on a daily basis I take close to 40 pills a day including several narcotics and various muscle relaxants and such to maneuver as I do

but I am always here for anyone should they need ..feel free to PM or email .. I don't type in proper english nor will I ... I type as I think ... and do not make hasty posts in response to anything ...hopefully this all made sense ..and whatever the decision or outcome I will be available for Admin..though at times I wonder why I'm considered an Elder or whatever ... By NO means have I ever been interested in a power role ..and feel bad that I am unable to do any of the tech stuff or have the financial resources to help in that capacity

[Lauren]

RevDevon, you have nothing to apologize for, as far as I'm concerned. What you've done for this and other communities is still visible today. Regardless of your typing skills, I think you're doing a great job.

[kyuuketsuki_kurai]

I'm sure that, regardless of who takes the site, you will always be a welcome addition to it, Rev.
Inky, is there any chance I could see the current site's stats, so I have an idea of what size and type of hosting (and therefore cost and such) would be required?

[Camazotz]

And thus far the only one I would trust with the url is Rev, And Cama.



Thank you as ever for your confidence and trust sweetheart, your faith in me has seen me through many a dark hour (as well you know), I just hope you will let me return the favour.

Hope to talk to you soon and also you Rev. Everyone else thanks for all your suggestions so far and please do keep them coming. If anyone wants to talk my PM box is always open or my yahoo is lagrimondesangre - feel free to add me.

Cama

[Alyushia]

Well for myself same as Inky stated watching whats going on ...and believe it is for the members to decide and discuss for now ...I'm sure the 3 of us shall discuss as well ...

for Myself as many of you are aware the fact of being involved in the VC both online and of for 30+ yrs I have basically retired from both other then here at Nox ...Though occasionally advise others

I have no plans of leaving Nox and shall continue in the role if that is desired ... I don't post like others due to the fact of health and such ...I take numerous medications and hate typing ..LOL..

for those that are new keep in mind that on a daily basis I take close to 40 pills a day including several narcotics and various muscle relaxants and such to maneuver as I do

but I am always here for anyone should they need ..feel free to PM or email .. I don't type in proper english nor will I ... I type as I think ... and do not make hasty posts in response to anything ...hopefully this all made sense ..and whatever the decision or outcome I will be available for Admin..though at times I wonder why I'm considered an Elder or whatever ... By NO means have I ever been interested in a power role ..and feel bad that I am unable to do any of the tech stuff or have the financial resources to help in that capacity

I know from experience it is difficult to type (or function at all) when on heavy medication. You have nothing to apologise for.
I have those issues as well and take massive (and I mean massive amounts of medication...including narcotics and muscle relaxants. Some days it's hard to do anything, including typing and thinking.

[Preist]

Hi again folks

may be over stepping the mark here but i see 7 pages of peoples posts and all considering it but there is a something missing to it all is someone going to just take it or are few going in together on it

just for organisation purposes mabey someone might want to organise a chat room on a yahoo or msn room just somewere private so that all can discuss whats happaning and who is doing what and when other wise

the enevitable will happen time goes to fast and befroe you know it its too late

just a suggestion you may want to go for

Preist

[Alyushia]

It may be a good idea, Preist, that some of these people talk to each other, especially the ones who may have some resources, but not others.

[Preist]

thanks Alyushia

well for anyone intrested heres a chat just for purpose its not big or great but its a chat that can be used and no one needs yahoo or msn for it

organise and use if you want but the longer you all leave it the less time you have for action

http://chatshack.net/preist

and just not to panic anyone i wont be taking to do with it my names there because i set up the thing nothing else i have handed over the user name and password to Cama so rest asured i am not interfering with this

Preist

[kyuuketsuki_kurai]

Actually, we have been talking amongst each other. ^_^
Thanks, though.

[Lauren]

thank you Preist. That was a kind gesture and a good idea also. Would save much time having us altogether rather than waiting.

[Preist]

so Kurai has everone involved in makeing the desision or who has acess to do something about this been talking or just a few of you and thats what i am saying as it goes its not what i am hearing

but no matter hope all goes well and something is sorted out for you all

Preist

[Camazotz]

well.. i'm in the chat room and on YIM if anyone wants me.. slow, but here lol

[Lauren]

Nuh uh! I just went in and you're not there. there you go messin' with the retarded girl again!! *laughs*

[Alyushia]

But Lauren, you are SO much fun to mess with. *heads for bottle of wine so I can "fix" your computer*

[Lauren]

You're so kind, Alyushia... SO kind...


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b196/RuffNTumble/kissy.gif

[Alyushia]

*laughs* nothing like offtopic!

[Lauren]

Okay back on point.

I've been doing some thinking on this and, while my offer stands, this is one more we can consider. Of course it would involve Incubus agreeing to at least a bit of involvement, albeit he would have some gain in doing so.

I know you guys have been here much longer than I have and you have much more invested in it. To you it's your home and you've proven that by the fact you're all still here through thick and thin. Even though I know my intentions and know my offer is sincere and I would never cheat nox or any of you, YOU dont know that. Hell, I dont know half of you so I know you can't know me much better.

But it seems none of us are truly all that thrilled about it being turned over to any single person because of the past. So, what about this.

Suppose a paypal account was set up in Sanguinox's name. Let's say either Rev or Cama, or even both, had the login info. All of us could donate as we were able, and all it would take would be a small button to be placed someplace on Nox. Rev, or Cama could then go into the paypal account and pay the host, or vBulletin for renewal, or even renew the domain each year or two years, however it's set up. Leave everything in Incubus's ownership, yet we cover the costs. Should a month come up where funds are low and it's coming close to being due, an announcement could be made or some of us who have said we have the funds to purchase this whole shebang, would make it known to contact us should donations be slim that month.

Now, Inky said in one post that if he couldn't find a suitable buyer or solution, he'd leave it as it is and leave it untended. BUT I truly do not see where much scripting needs done now, unless something happens were something screws up on one of the scripts and needs to be touched up. So, what if Cama or Rev could contact Inky in those events where scripting needs repair and pay Inky for his coding work.

That way, we ALL "own" Nox, there should be no rivalry, there should be no... "I pay more than you" because no one would know who paid what, those who cannot afford to pay, would not have to feel guilty because no one would need to know who donated and who did not. I think if we were all investing in it, and felt it was "ours" we'd all be more apt to contribute and feel pride at it's success. I'm not saying we dont now, but I think it would be better. Inky would be free of the place, but would not have to be immersed in a place that has hard memories for him, YET would still be able to feel he's caring for us and helping AND it would provide for him in a way that meets his goals for this time in his life, and gives back to him--which I think we all can agree it hasn't for a long time.

Seriously, if we want this to be ours, then let's make it ours. Inky? Would you, if the members agreed to this, stay on as our part-time coder?

[Alyushia]

My only issue with that idea (and I think it's a great idea) is that, knowing how people are, I fear that the donating would fall on a few.
Not because the others can't afford it, but because many would think others were taking care of it...or wouldn't think of it at all.

I do not think anyone here would intentionally do this to Nox, but I have seen this happen with very well meaning people in the past with offline groups. People get caught up in other things, and it often falls to a few to do the work and the donating.

If we can make it work somehow I am all for it, and do not wish to be a pessimist. Maybe if we think about it we can come up with a solution in case this happens??

[Lauren]

Yep, me too, but it's an option and if we're serious about it, it could work. But we'd have to be serious and responsible and do it.

[incubus]

I was thinking this over at work, I if Nox wanted to foot its bills, and pay me $100 a month to maintain, then I would (sort of like business relationship I have with another client)

My role then being mainly just to make sure Nox is updated, up kept.

[kyuuketsuki_kurai]

Lauren, while a good idea on paper, relying only on donations would most likely end up causing the bills not to get paid. There are always certain periods when donations falter, and we need someone that's in charge of the bills, so that it will still be paid when the donations aren't enough.
The only option really to be sure that works is a minimum donation, which isn't really a donation, but a subscription then.
Also, while the gesture is nice and all, I don't think adding another $100 to the bill is the best idea when there are ways to keep it maintained for free.
I've been talking a lot with Cama to discuss how much the site would cost to host and such and ways to cut the costs.
I'll be in the chat room that was offered, if anyone wishes to discuss the subject more. I'll also be on Yahoo, AIM, and MSN, if that's preferred. (My PM box is always open, too)
Yahoo: kyuuketsuki_kurai
AIM: kyuuketsukikurai
MSN: kyuuketsuki_kurai@msn.com

[Alyushia]

There are many discussions going. This is far from easy but most be done.

I have another half hour before my 'normal' job but I may be back early when they fire me for taking 2 days off for dog death leave. Not that I need that job any more. I make more in my spare time.

I know this is a bit off subject, but did you lose your job? *concerned*
I know you make more in your spare time, but so many changes so quickly can be extremely stressful, even if the changes actually end up being for the better in the long run. *hug*

[Lauren]

Kyuuketsuki, Yes, I know that. I also know that there are those who dont want this one to buy it and dont want that one, and the more choices we have the better. There are other ways then minimum donations such as I said in my post. Surely if the members here choose an option such as I just posted, they should not be offended by a polite reminder, lets say a week before the bills come due, and since we have those who already offered to foot the entire bill, I do not see a problem with any of those stepping up to put in the difference.

I've seen this very thing work wonderfully on some sites. I've seen it when it's been disastrous. The difference in the two scenarios was the dedication of those who said they wanted to do it.

It's been said people are nervous about one person stepping up and taking it and the consensus is that what is wanted is a group of people to take it. I've rarely seen that work because inevitably someone doesn't agree with what the others want, and pulls support. Those left, wont let anyone else in to help, because one of their closest friends just dumped them. Eventually they each either pull out one by one because things aren't done their way.

This seems the best choice for those who want group ownership. It would be group based, there would be the means for obtaining the donations when some do not make their donation, and there would be none of the worries of a smaller group.

Even I dont think this option is the best choice for Nox, but since it's been told to me everyone is hesitant to accept a single purchaser, I thought it wouldn't hurt to put up the other options I've seen that have worked. I am trying to put up options based on what I am hearing the members here want. Not what I want or necessarily think is the best choice.

[incubus]

I know this is a bit off subject, but did you lose your job? *concerned*
I know you make more in your spare time, but so many changes so quickly can be extremely stressful, even if the changes actually end up being for the better in the long run. *hug*
Nope , sadly I actually got promoted yesterday 'again' I am now in charge of millions of dollars of stock. The tracking and accounting of it. I just can not win my hopes was they fire me.

On to topic. I have yet to talk to any of the high staff to see their thoughts. But I know the direction I am leaning 'thus far'

Remember I have to go by what is posted. I have talked to no one privately yet although I have had some pms I have disregarded them due to I believe it should all be said in open.

Any how I must run for a few hours, going to pet store. And going shopping.

[Camazotz]

Hey everyone

Firstly I just want to thank everyone again for all their ideas and offers of help. It is most heartening.

Regarding making any decision, I think (especially with certain events in the past that don't really need to be gone into) that it would help the members here to decide if those who have made offers very clearly state what (if anything) they would want in return. What role would you need/desire in return for your time/money, what changes would you personally want to make etc?

That way, if things are all stated clearly then people can see which option they really like and make a commitment understanding any and all implications. Whilst I'm not suggesting that anyone here is trying to buy Nox for themselves, or to change the place drastically, if everything is clearly and publically stated now then there's less room for surprises or disagreements later- which will only hurt individuals and the community as a whole.

I'm sorry to ask that as I know everyone is acting with love for Nox, but I'm sure that everyone will understand the reasons why I feel the need to say it.

Cama

[Lauren]

I want nothing more than I am getting now. I want to know Nox is here, I want a place to go and speak with like-minded people and I want to learn and share. I want a place that is drama-free, and I want a place that isn't strangled by power hunger.

If my offer were accepted what would change is the name listed on the Hosting account Client Center and the vBulletin account Client center only so I was authorized to make payments. I do not see anyplace Nox needs to change as for how it's run nor would I want part in that beyond a offering suggestions or opinions as I do now as a member.

As for technical issues, that could either by done by myself, or inky should he wish to do it.

Should inky decide he wants Nox back, He would merely have to ask at which time I would revert the hosting and software license back to him.

I would also be willing to write up a document stating this and have it notorized and mailed to whoever Inky wanted me to send it to.

Basically I want nothing to change. I want to provide financial support and technical support, and continue as I have been... as a regular member.

I've been admin at many places and by doing so I lost what was most important to me. I do not want to lose what I have here.

The admins and moderators would stay the same if they wished, and if one of them left, it would be up to the others to bring another if they wished by whatever means they've been doing it all along.

Here is the list of what I would wish to do, and it would be presented to administration for approval before even that were done.

1. All vBulletin upgrades and updates would be done in a timely fashion. Hackers (more appropriately Crackers) work at the same pace to find ways to find and break through security coding, so it would need to be kept up to date with the latest security patches and upgrades.

2. Any Errors would be repaired in a timely fashion.

3. Any new scripts or new features/options would be added only upon request of admin and not on my whim just because it would be "neat".

4. I would monitor the cPanel stats to assure smooth running of the board and minimize server load. If something is slowing down the server, it would be repaired, or if it was in good repair and was still overloading the server, the server package would be upgraded to handle the script.

5. Any scripting or coding, or modding, that I cannot personally handle, (assuming Inky does not stay on as coder) would be done by someone and their fees would be paid by me.

I want to be visible as a member everything else, I would like to be as invisible as possible.

[darkangel5778]

I agree that there are several options out there. some are better than others...to be honest mine was just a last minute thing. I just would donate space I cannot run a site I am not a leader more like a person that is popping up form time to time. That I am afraid would be left to someone more cabable than me lol.
I like kuriastsis (and I am soooo sorry I keep murdering it:o ) and laurens suggestions myself, they both seem able and willing to perform exactly what is needed. I have no problem donating a little here and there. I have come to consider this place a home and would like it to remain open to those who need it, it lacks all the bullshit of other sites to be quite frank.:maniac:

[ChadSang]

I agree, it would be a sad state of affairs if Nox folded. Why do I come here? I don't know but I do know I'd rather be here than anyplace else. This site is about the only "for real" site.

[kyuuketsuki_kurai]

1. All vBulletin upgrades and updates would be done in a timely fashion. Hackers (more appropriately Crackers) work at the same pace to find ways to find and break through security coding, so it would need to be kept up to date with the latest security patches and upgrades.

2. Any Errors would be repaired in a timely fashion.

3. Any new scripts or new features/options would be added only upon request of admin and not on my whim just because it would be "neat".

4. I would monitor the cPanel stats to assure smooth running of the board and minimize server load. If something is slowing down the server, it would be repaired, or if it was in good repair and was still overloading the server, the server package would be upgraded to handle the script.

5. Any scripting or coding, or modding, that I cannot personally handle, (assuming Inky does not stay on as coder) would be done by someone and their fees would be paid by me.

Can I ask the simple question of why we'd keep using vBulletin when the same things can be achieved for free with no to minimal extra work (I'd discussed using PHP-Nuke (http://www.phpnuke.org) with Cama)?
Also, keep in mind that crackers could have access to alot of information that our members would not be comfortable with non-members knowing. Plus, who would pay for these extra services and costs?

[Lauren]

because the free ones are very susceptible to breach (hacking admin accounts and wiping out the entire database) and because the same things canNOT be done with free software as can be done with such software as vBulletin and Invision Board.

I've run both and have done so since 1997. Any board I cared about or was serious about I would NEVER put on one of those free forum software scripts.

Since you're asking me who would pay... I would. Were my offer to be accepted I would pay for anything that needed paying for.

[Lauren]

Oh, and if you're concerned about Crackers getting personal information, be my guest to try one of the free softwares. The coders, obviously, do not get paid for their work, and as such, they do not spend the lion's share of their time being sure they close these security breaches.

File this one under...
You get what you pay for.

[incubus]

Lol, plus good luck finding a decent port over from vbulletin to one of those free ones, that not only are very exploitable and poorly supported but also very server intense on their scripting.

Believe me I do not spend $160 on each license I own (a few) just to say o0 look its vbulletin, I do so for security and for flexibility and reliability.

[RKCoon]

Ya know, Ive been watching this with a fair amount of interest -- weve had offers from well known, well respected people to take on the task that is nox, and ive seen new, very much as yet unproven people offering to pay for nox -- expenditures that seems, to me, rather unneccessary. I did ezwhore for well over 4 years, and any board on ANY setup is suseptible to hack attacks, doesnt matter where -- and an ounce of forsight, enough to back up regularly, is enough to counter such a threat.

sides, what the hell we got to worry about about being hacked? Honestly, we worried the board wont be here tomorrow? hell, thats happened with the repeated server moves/fuckups/other issues so many times in the years that ive been here that ive lost count. weve always rebuilt, weve always come back stronger than before -- yes much, if not mostly, due to incubus, but, everyone has the right and option to leave. Further, the easyest way to avoid having personal info stolen is simply NOT put it on, but then, use yer credit card once online, and yer liable to get hacked or fucked, so thats a really a non concern as well.

In the end, Yes, id be dissapointed if nox went under, as weve done a LOT of good here, i think. And while yes, ive had a few issues come up as of late, its certainly nothing lethal or fatal, personally or to the board as a whole -- the issue at hand is where do we go from here. My vote, personally, goes for the cheap (making it safer and easyer for all concerned) way out. I dont think anyone is here to make money, moreover, i dont think this community exists to feed money to any corperation or whatever -- were here to help others like us, and have a place to chat and learn. There ARE meathods that exist to do this -- and i personally feel that its safer, for all concerned, if we dont sink money into something like this. That way, if no money is involved and things get fucked, no one is out or screwed seriously (and ive seen this happen -- hell, ezwhore shafted me out of my board when i got banned. bastards, may they forever roast in a special place in Hades realm...)

Anywho, the call certainly is not mine - but that dun keep me from firing off my thoughts on it. i DO have more thoughts on this, but for now, ill keepthem to myself. for now, at any rate......

[incubus]

Well with some of the input and what I have seen I have a new option I am working on, first I plan to talk to Rev, if he agree's then that will be that.

It would be a good option, one all should like. 'should'

A easy fix for a year , then easy thru out.

As for the last fuck up , hell I had all data lol.

[RKCoon]

Thats what i mean tho -- to the best of my knowledge, most half decent free, or minimum cost message boards offer archiving -- hell even xanga does. keeping on top of that is usually the best defence from the bullshit, deliberate or not, that crops up.

[kyuuketsuki_kurai]

I wouldn't suggest a system that I wasn't very familiar with and certain that it was secure. Also, the host I'd suggested to Cama has their own security features to prevent DDoS attacks and other things.
Porting the data may not be easy but it is doable. PHP-Nuke is very code heavy and isn't as easy-to-use as vB, but I know full well it can, in fact be done, as I've done it with another forum-based site.

[incubus]

That is part of the trouble is it is code heavy and by many people doing it for fun. The code in it is nasty (yes I have had jobs I had to code with that junk software and also charged them twice the price)

The admin interface is horrific to say the least, but even the end user experience leaves a very bitter taste in the mouth. To use that is almost no better then cheesy boards.

[Malcaius]

id have to actually argue against what you just said inky, ive been to the site on php nuke and it looks as good as nox, it just needs someone willing to do the work, and Ket is offering to do the hard work of coding it and maintaining it.

if someones willing dont diss the idea

[incubus]

Did not say they could not 'look' nice , I am saying over all quality of the script. How is stating I do not want Nox using free ware junk a dis? I am not dissing her motivation nor her willingness but simply a scripting and junk code.

Remember I coded for a living for some time and I have seen 'most' every code for forums out. I do not continue to always use vbulletin for the fun of it, if the free ones where worth time I would use one. But the simple fact is they are not.

[incubus]

Ok after talking with Rev, my plan is now going into effect.

After reading this many have the monitary but not the technical ability. And wish Nox to just stay at it is.

So here is the best solution to insure the life of Nox and the way it is ran and the quality it runs in.

I have changed the donation button, now if you push it you will see Nox’s goal. This will pay for 1 year hosting scripts, updates, domain renewal.

I have credited the donations into it , now once the donation is hit ASAP so I can pay the year up and everything and get all updates done (yes I am going to do them) Rev will take over as sole in charge of what is added , not added and so forth. While he is not techy he knows the back end of vbulletin well. And all technical issues he will come to me.

This ensures Rev who we all trust is now where I was, can make final last choices on all things (not that I usually did) and ensures the staff does not change nor the url due to I trust rev with all in Nox.

This is the only solution and one that benefits all, the updates as needed I will perform (they are not to often after I do the next big one) the hosting no worries for a year nor the domain.

Once its paid a new goal will be shown, smaller price and Nox will have 1 year to collect it.

To see the graph either click donate at top Nav, or http://sanguin.org/forum/donate.php this will also update the gallery to a working version with many more options.

Ps. If people wish it to show who donated I can arrange that, but some may want to not be shown. So that is up to everyone to decide.

[RevDevon]

After coferencing with Rob
on this ,seems to be the most doable solution

As it would eliminate any changes and Nox shall remain the Home that we all love

and as always should you have any questions whatsoever do not hesitate to PM or IM me
..



P.S.- updating my yahoo msgr and deleing inactive should you wish to remain or be added senf an IM ,even if just with the words of greeeting and shall be added and/or remain

[Vicereine]

sounds like a great solution to me. For my part im happy to show as donating, could there be a button option to be anonymous though ?

[darkangel5778]

I think that is probably the best solution for all.

[incubus]

The best way I am thinking for anonymous for now is to log out , then donate (would show as guest) I am looking for a way to change that in the script.

[incubus]

Never mind I added an anonymous button , so it will not show who donated on the page.

That way option is up to one donating. Already one anonymous.

[Vicereine]

excellent... thanks incubus

[incubus]

No trouble... I just did a tad bit of editing.