Mentality

[Stefan]

I have received some PM's and some posts concerning the "new me" since I came back. Not to be egotistical or self-serving, but any concerns I will be happy to speak about.

In my absence, I went through the worst that I can imagine in regular life. I lost my job, nearly my marriage, my house and so forth. I examined myself and the VC as a whole.

I was more or less content underground, though I often thought of my family here and elsewhere in the VC. I was being very protective of myself and my blood family.

I was "discovered" by a therian at work, which was...interesting, to say the least. As I reacclimated myself to the current workings and activity in the VC, I saw that I needed to come back, not just for myself, but for any assistance I could lend.

There are some that have branded me "bully" and "holier-than-thou" since my return. I myself have not noticed much of a difference in my communiques than previously, with the exception that I am more determined than ever to strive for not only unity, but to protect the society at large.

If I have come across as more overbearing, overprotective or overly-cynical, understand that I am not intending to be an ass. I am merely concerned for not only our world, but our safety.

S

[MLE]

Welcome home hun! I am very glad to see you back, and pleased to see such determination. As I told our mutual friend when I first heard of your return, you have my full support. You are one of the very few left that I would follow. You are doing great hun! Some may be scared of things changing, but I believe changes need to be made, or we all may have more to be scared of.

[Jeset]

Change is a very good thing. For one it keeps your mind active, and determanation keeps purpose in your life. I am glad to see that you have re-vamped your resolve. Just dont let determanation blind you from or keep you away from the simpler things in life.

[Camazotz]

Well... even a man with a mission needs to keep in mind that to help the community one needs to engage with people on their levels, rather than only communicating with people who speak/post/live/learn along paths that one personally follows.

It is our very diversity that keeps us alive as a community and away from stagnation.

[Eclecta]

Depends on what type changes we are talking about, but change is usually good. It usually means things are being improved, and I for one am all for that. I think that anything any of us can do to help is a good thing indeed.

[ChadSang]

Changings usually improve an existing entity. I just love NOX!

[Alyushia]

In order for growth to occur there must be change.
This can be painful and frightening at times...but necessary.

[Stefan]

I will be making a large post here very soon...I've been quiet lately for a reason.

[Stefan]

Many of you may or may not have noticed that I have not been posting much lately. Mostly because of my schedule being jammed as it is the beginning of the year and my work has increased, but also because of a few other things.

I have sat back and looked at things in general since my return; and recently, I’ve received a PM that has made me have some reflection. It was from Eclecta and I will share it with you all. I spoke with her on the phone and discussed things, also asked her permission to use it in this post. I am revealing it exactly as it was sent. My understanding was that many had approached her and asked her to contact me concerning my current demeanor, that I was being…unusually hard. During the conversation, it became clear to me that some clarification was in order; in depth explanation as to my current statements, but more so on my sudden departure a little over two years ago and why. Also, why I was reinstated to the position I currently have.

Keep in mind, until now only a handful of people know what I’m about to reveal. The reasoning behind that was not blatant favoritism, rather at the time, there was only a handful of people I could trust. And even then, I didn’t tell the whole tale.

This is not to create nor perpetuate any drama. Most of you know that I detest drama. This is also not a “pity Stefan” party, nor is it a defense or indictment of my actions. I simply feel based on what feedback that I have received that I need to put myself, and at least a portion of my private life, on display. Perhaps in doing so, the air can finally be cleared and we as a community, and a society, can move forward together.

I have always said that there are certain things that must be earned: respect, loyalty and trust being the big three. Also, if these are ever lost, it takes twice as long to earn them back. I’m not really sure how I fit on that; I have heard many things since my return, things that were said while I was gone, and have not been contacted by anyone concerning this until now. Well, we’ll get to that I suppose.

Here is the PM:


01-07-2007, 11:53 PM

Hi Stefan, I didn't feel comfortable posting this for everyone to see, because I don't want it to seem like an attack. I consider you my friend and that is why I'm bringing this to you. It started out as a post, but I am sending it this way instead. I hope you are doing well. I for one think that most of the concern that people are expressing has to do with the fact that they feel like you left family for family and while I'd prob do the same since you guys are all old enough to look out for yourselves and my kids aren't I can say I understand. What people seem to have the problem with is the fact that so many ppl idolized you for so long, and now that you are back, everyone thinks you have a huge chip on your shoulder. And no one likes to hear anyone talk about the fact that they are an elder, regardless if they are or not. Folks are worried that you are trying to change things that don't need fixing. And they think you are being disrespectful to those who are members here at Nox. They think you maybe have a grudge that needs to be settled, but no one knows who it is that you have a grudge against. They feel skeptical because you came back claiming you wanted no title or position and by the new year you had your position back and elder by your name, without any discussion about it. No one disputes that you are an elder. But so many things are being misconstrued as contradictory. These are things that have been brought to my attention. I realize you are doing what you feel is best for the community and everyone commends you for that, especially me. I think that because in effect, we are all somewhat rebellious by nature, so we do tend to not want to be lead. You said it best to me years ago when you told me, "Leaders are the ones who don't tell you they are leading you, you just follow them naturally." Or something like that. I can't remember exactly how it was phrased now.I'm posting this not just for me, but yes, I am concerned too, but I'm posting this for others, who are afraid you'll be mad at them, and I'm posting this for you Stefan, because even tho I've been defending you for over a year to those who though you abandoned us all, and I never minded telling people what a good guy you are, I hope you aren't gonna be mad at me for posting this. If you feel it's too personal delete it. But I had to post it so those who are also worried will see it and know I did what I said I would do, because they asked.Ok, so I didn't post it. Def too personal. But just wanted you to know I'm here for ya should you need me. I'd love to get together with you sometime soon if you are ever around Marietta to chit chat and catch up. Talk to ya soon.and then click the 'Delete this Message' button.



Ok, there we are. Now, I’ll look at this piece by piece:

Issue 1: That I left the family for the family? I’ll address that one a bit later. Moving on…

Issue 2: So many people “idolized” me back then, but since I’ve been back I’ve got a chip on my shoulder. This is flattering, humbling and disturbing all at the same time. Again, we’ll come back to that.

Issue 3: I came back claiming I wanted no title or position, yet I’m a global now. I’ll tackle this one first. Yes, if you look at my application I stated I didn’t want any of that, that I had specific business. That was over a year ago. While I still have a few unresolved issues (to be covered), I simply requested “Elder” put back on (…Elder, yet another issue…we’ll get to that soon…). As far as the Global position, it was not solicited by me. Incubus asked me if I wanted to be one again. I told him I would be happy to if that’s acceptable, i.e., if the other Admins/Globals/Mods had no problem with that. Since I have been reinstated, I can’t see where I’ve done anything that would be considered overstepping my bounds (moderation-wise) or abusing my position. However, in the interest of peace and fair play, if there is an issue with me being a Moderator of any type, please voice it; and voice it publicly. Start a poll, “Should Stefan be allowed to be a Global, or should he simply be a member?” If the majority have a problem, I will gladly step down. At this point, not Incubus, Rev or anyone else contacted me with a problem in that vein.

These seem to be the big issues, aside from people being afraid to say this to me, at least in a PM.

Now, I am going to “bare my soul” so to speak and be completely open and honest about what happened, why I left, why I’m back and perhaps why I’ve changed (although the change has really been very little overall, just certain areas).

This is going to be a little lengthy…you might want to take a smoke/potty break first and get a container of your favourite beverage before proceeding…

Welcome back.

I go back three years ago to the summer of 2003; I hosted a Gathering, of which we had a fairly good turnout. Some here were there and remember it. From that Gathering, House Phoenix Resurrectus was born. For a time, things were going very well. I was in contact and good relations with other Houses and Elders across the U.S. and in other countries and a few months later I got married.

There was a member of the community that was being kicked out of her apartment. Her name is Wendy, a.k.a. Lady Absinthe Night, Wendy-Cat and a few other monikers. After discussing this with my wife, we offered to take her in until she could find a place to live, and the agreed upon time was roughly a month of stay. Now, keep in mind, my wife was completely alright with the community, my post within the community and all was peaceful.

Wendy took a bus from California and we picked her up a few days later just north of Atlanta. We had a room ready and she moved in. I am not objected to anyone’s faith or beliefs/practices, but knowing she was into a form of witchcraft, I asked that she not perform any rituals in the house itself because of my children. Not only did she disregard that, she had set up an altar in her room. That’s one issue.

She never got a job; never looked for a place to live. In fact, she moved her boyfriend in from California (not telling me he was staying for more than a visit until the last minute). Now, I had my wife, my two children and two other mouths to feed as he had no job either. So, we were being eaten out of house and home.

I took a short hiatus from the House in order to concentrate on working more overtime to keep food in the fridge. I asked her not to make any drastic decisions or changes without consulting me first. Little did I know that not only was she speaking with organizations/people within the community that she knew that I had no use for, she nearly incited a very real war at my doorstep. When I resumed my position, the House was in an uproar. On top of that, my wife and I were not getting along, in fact, we were fighting constantly…right up to things becoming physical. This was unlike either of us. My children were troubled by visitations in their bedroom at night and having extreme night terrors.

I appealed to the community for help, monetary donations or someone to help me get her out of the house. I appealed not only to Nox, but to several other associations for help. Only one person sent any aid whatsoever, and I have not seen her here; I wish to repay that favor.

Because of all this, I began monitoring her activity from work, which was a huge no-no. I got caught, and dismissed/sacked/fired. After that, I began receiving threats from unknowns in relation to my well being, not to mention some other people very close to me. It took time to deal with that. When it became apparent that there was a very serious problem, my wife gave me the ultimatum: Withdraw or she leaves.

I took several days to consider this. My children, while not overly-traumatized, were in need of my attention; we had just moved (in fact, we moved 4 times in two years over this incident), I was out of work, severely depressed and borderline alcoholic. So, I made the decision to leave in order to recover, heal my family and rebuild, and protect those that meant so much to me. The hardest thing I ever did was post my departure on Nox. Many of you were upset at my leaving, but look at it from an inverse perspective: All of you lost me, but I lost all of you. Whose loss was greater?

I may come across as a bit sterner than I was. I have had to be that way. I didn’t grow thick skin, I grew scales.

Fortunately, I am back even at a possibility of personal loss. I hope this is at least some form of explanation and I hope you can bear with me. I am going through a lot still, and being back is a bit of culture shock.

I am open to any and all comments. I freely posted this, and feel free to respond here. Again, this is not drama time. If it's going to be intense, send a PM. I only intend to keep this thread open for a few days, then the issue is closed as far as I'm concerned.

Yours,

Stefan

[Malcaius]

were do i start...

a long long time ago... *looks for mr.lucas's lawyers*

i met you once long ago in your home ground a nobody stranger from a far away land with a fistfull of dollars and the hopes of meeting my own kind, you welcomed me with open arms, and we all did so much together i felt like i had a family and i was happy, we swore an oath in those days and we all were proud to know one another. and i fel in love with you, you became my farther figure.. sorry if thats to clingy but its true.

ive spent time with your wife and family, lived beneath your roof, and sat at your table and it was one of the happyest times of my life, i love you family (i wish you could tell them i miss and love them, but i suppose with you not ment to be, being here you cant do that) then that thrice cursed women came and ruined you happy place, broke the sanctity of your home, desicrated your table and poisoned your goodwill.

when you left it broke my heart, but i belived you would come back.. but as it became longer and longer i started to lose hope and i mised you my friend, my teacher, my partner in crime, the caped crusader.. my elder.

now your back yes you have changed but, sometimes change is for the best, we all change given time, events and these changes keep us alive, deep down your still my.. our stefan, just with added extras. there not bad, and in time we will all learn to adjust.

times change, people change, but whats in the heart, the soul.. the truth of all men and women under heaven no matter your god or creed, it is those things deep down inside that make us what we are and you are stefan, and im glad you came home.

always with you to the end
malcaius

[Lauren]

Stefan, Obviously I do not know you, or of what you went through, other than what you revealed here.

I want to say this though...

Out of love and concern and goodwill, we often with pure hearts and intentions, help someone who does not share those pure intentions. We're often hurt, and if we keep it to ourselves, we are often the ones condemned.

I learned a long time ago, and just recently had myself reminded, when I lost sight of the lesson...

Never explain yourself. Your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe it.

I admire what courage it took to lay yourself open as such. I appreciate the discomfort it took to do this. I also admire the love you must have felt for all of us here, to expose yourself so fully. I also know that wounds such as this, leave scars. Sure, we heal, but scars remain, and scars are thicker and tougher than the thin skin we had. If you must be a little more hard-nosed, to keep this sort of thing from afflicting yourself AND others, so be it. In time, you will learn that a gate may be placed in the walls that are now needed and can safely let those you wish, in and out of that gate. Walls are not comfortable for anyone. Not those who feel the separation from within, nor those kept at bey outside them. Time will allow for the relaxing of those walls.

I have only just met you and so I cannot call myself your friend... but I can say I would be honored to be one.

I wish for you all those things you wish for yourself.

Lauren

[incubus]

I will personally address the Global part.. Just due to well its my doing.

I always do whats best for Nox, have always tried to and that never changes.

Stefan did not ask to be global, really no one who is global has had much say about them being one lol (unless they step down). When he left he was global, and I have trust in the man and made the call on my own , any who dislike this can take it up with me (my pm box is open). But I will not revert my choice unless I had a damn good reason (I see none) while I do not believe in his path, I believe in his intentions.

[RevDevon]

And to go on record ..I myself welcomed the idea of Stefan's reinstatement of global as well ...As I see Stefan asa person wwho can give all of himself at any given time with total disreguard of any repercussions to himself as long as he feels its helping another ...I will always hold Stefan in my heart with the upmost respect

[Stefan]

To reiterate, this is not a "Stefan party"


I am both flattered and honored by all responses. I will say that though I am looked up to not just here but in other areas, I look up to many here as well and Rev is amongst those; Incubus is a very good friend (even though we don't always see eye-to-eye :thwack: But Rev is one that I respect and love with all of my person, as well as MLE, Incubus, Lazarus, Malcaius and many others (no, I can't list every one of you because this would be incredibly long). Their wisdom, and their mistakes, have helped me; I hope my mistakes and contributions have done the same for them as well as everyone.

I make mistakes; that is part of being normal. I will always put myself on the line for another, especially if they are "vampire" because we are a minority...and a majority at the same time. This is a solidarity that not many can understand. As I said, I have already put myself at great personal risk by returning; so much so that it could cost me everything up to, and including, my children. However, I cannot deny who and what I am, nor can I completely turn my back on my own, nor will I ever. I will be here until I'm six-feet-under in one capacity or another, and anyone I can help...I will.

Again, this thread is open for a limited time only. I don't feel that it needs to perpetuate. I did not reveal everything because I didn't feel some details were necessary. But I welcome any responses and PM's.

And on that note: I have always been straightforward and honest with everyone here. I've never minced words, nor have I been fearful of sending a PM. Yet, there are those who approached Eclecta and asked her to speak on their behalf. If I have offended, it was with best intentions in mind. However, if I were on the receiving end I would have contacted the person in mind with at least a PM. I am not unreachable, nor am I unapproachable. I can only think of a few instances that I've handed someone their own ass in a PM. I may be wrong; I've been wrong before. But I've learned the fortitude to admit such. Please, contact me if there is a problem. WE can work it out (no copywrite infringement intended to John and Paul).

S

[Savion]

I had decided not to reply as anything seemed nothing more than unwanted pity or unneccesary, but I must say one thing then no more: of your post I have read, I find your openness refreshing. You do not mix words when speaking your mind. There are no hidden meanings behind your posts. For this, especially, I look forward to more of your thoughts.

[MLE]

Stefan, it's always a party with you hun. I'm so happy to see you back, even though I can certainly understand the risk of being out in the open again...

[kyuuketsuki_kurai]

I wasn't one of the people you got to know off the internet at all, really, and I don't think you were around for all that long after I showed up. I do remember when I was in a bad situation with my stepfather and things got nasty, you were one of the people that offered help. Though, I didn't take you up on the offer, I've always remembered and appreciated it greatly, (That goes for all the others that are members of my Nox family and offered help too, though) especially since you didn't know me long online and not at all in real life.
Life is guarrenteed to change over time, and whatever changes, I'm willing to help in any way possible, just as I know you would do, if you could.

[Eclecta]

Stefan, that's one of the things I've always liked most about you. You are approachable. You do care about other people. And most of all, you try to help even when it hurts you personally. People like that are not your usual lot. Most people are in it for whatever they themselves can get out of it. You aren't like that.

I'm glad you posted this, and are taking time to clarify things. People still care alot about you. It's those who are newer and don't know you that might be a little confused. But I'm sure they are getting the picture.

Lauren said, "Never explain yourself. Your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe it." I don't believe that. Your friends do need it and your enemies only won't believe it because they don't want to believe that someone they don't like would be capable of doing something good. Explaining yourself gives people closure, and I think that's important as a phase to assist in moving on from the past to the future.

I think now, what we all want to hear is that you aren't leaving us again! LOL.

Welcome back. You really were missed. You just have no idea how much.

[Alyushia]

I hope you stay around as well. From what I have seen of you so far, I admire your honesty.

[Lauren]

Lauren said, "Never explain yourself. Your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe it."

I don't believe that. Your friends do need it and your enemies only won't believe it because they don't want to believe that someone they don't like would be capable of doing something good. Explaining yourself gives people closure, and I think that's important as a phase to assist in moving on from the past to the future.


Like any quote or platitude, this one, can be interpreted in different ways. I meant this as an encouragement for Stefan, and not a condemnation of his friends or, even, himself for posting his explanation.

Still, there is truth in it and rather than the truth of it proving either of us wrong, it proves both of us right.

His explanation does bring closure, and most likely an end to much confusion about behaviors or attitudes that were uncharacteristic for Stefan. Still, those who are his friends, even without the explanation, will still be his friends, knowing something caused the uncharacteristic behaviors, even though they may be worried or concerned. Those friends are the ones who were aware enough to contact you to reach out to him.

All it means, is that his friends, even without the explanation, would not abandon him--so his explanation isn't "needed"--although it is, I'm sure, very appreciated and does clear up confusion and concern.

I meant no disrespect, or negativity by using that quote.

Lauren

[Camazotz]

Stefan.. as someone who knows of you, but does not know you yet.. I am glad to see your most recent post in this thread.

For new members especially who haven't had a chance to get to know you, or who weren't around to see the quality of your contributions in the past there was a risk of your seeming incredibly UNapproachable.. I am glad to see that you clarified things.

Cama

[Stefan]

I thank you all for giving me the opportunity to clarify and explain, and your understanding most of all. I am sure that I will "mellow out" some as time goes by...:D

And as far as me leaving again: don't plan on it. I may take a hiatus occassionally, but I don't forsee leaving again. If I'm found out and my wife leaves, I'll consider myself married to...ok...most of you...the females...the rest will be like really close...well...ok, siblings...you get the picture.:banana:

[Camazotz]

*laughs* you may live to regret that.. we're an even stranger bunch than when you left lol

[Sidney Paradoxia]

I am deeply touched. I have been inspired in more than one way with your posts here and on other parts of the board, Stefan. 'gives you a manly hug'

With Heartfelt Respect,
Sid

[Eclecta]

Uh oh. LOL. Cama is right. We are way weirder than you remember.

[Stefan]

But isn't "weird" the spice of life? Or was that "paprika?" I get those confused...

[darklin]

I wasent around when you were here last so never got the chance to get to know you but we have a few things in common..One being putting everything at risk to return because you knew in your heart you couldnt ignore who and what you are. Seriously... i understand you more than you know with that asspect and i have alot of respect for you and your actions. I came very close to loosing everything not so long back and when i say everything i mean everything including my sanity. I dont want to go into my personal situations but if you would like PM me i would be more than happy to responed and talk about it.

As far as weirdness goes Whoohoo im right there with the rest of ya ;)

Darklin

[ChadSang]

But isn't "weird" the spice of life? Or was that "paprika?" I get those confused...

I think it was the spice of life that keeps me going from day to day

[Vicereine]

Stefan, you dont know me. Malcaius knew me for abit before I had to retreat as well, about a year and a bit ago. For a few similar reasons to yourself. From what i have seen here, I find you honest, honourable and open.

I look forward to getting to know you through this board as I see you as someone very worth knowing. And thats from your words here. Not your status.

[Stefan]

I orginially was going to close this thread, but I'm glad I didn't; saves me from opening a new thread.

When I returned here, I was in a lot of culture shock. Being back was rather alien to me, and my demeanor reflected that to a degree. Since then I have been able to mellow out a bit.

But only a bit.

It seems that a lot of my statements have been perceived as...controversial, to the point of heated debate. This was not my intent.

I see myself as a learner; I know much, but I don't know everything. I do like to dig and do research on us, not just the condition itself, but as much history that I can. Recently, I've tried to share a little bit of that history, just as information; I've been basically told to piss off.

I was given the title of "Elder" many years ago, yet some think this is some type of self-given exhaltation or awarded to me by this board. That couldn't be farther from the truth. Since the debate on the "title" issue, I have not said a word, nor even used the appellage whatsoever. And yet, that has been thrown back in my face.

I am somewhat pleased, if not surprised, of the mostly philosophical approach many take here now. On the other hand, it has seemed to stagnate certain things as well.

I find myself wondering, "Why the hell did I bother to come back?" Well, as for me, I wanted to be with my own kind again. Beyond that, I'm not sure anymore. The controversy I've seemed to stir up is most troublesome.

Therefore, for the good of the community, and I suppose for my own good, I shant be suggesting, offering or posting any other references to anything beyond this board. If any such information is desired, please contact me by PM. I shall simply continue conversing on general nonsense, pablum and tripe (was that the term RK? I like that one). OK, that's not fair. There's a lot of good things to talk about here. Oh, wait a minute, I'M the one with the nonsense, pablum and tripe.

Point taken.

S

[Alyushia]

Stefan: Please don't let the things that have been said keep you from saying what you need/wish to say.

I feel that the posts you have made have been valuable. They make people think..and when that happens you will always get debate, heated discussion...even anger.
That does not mean (in my opinion) that it should not have been posted. Just the opposite, in fact.

Are we supposed to never post anything that may cause heated discussion?
I hope this is not the case.

[Savion]

I agree with Alyushia. Besides if there were never any contraversial topics (minus any undue drama) the entire OVC would be a boring place indeed.

I was given the title of "Elder" many years ago, yet some think this is some type of self-given exhaltation or awarded to me by this board. That couldn't be farther from the truth. Since the debate on the "title" issue, I have not said a word, nor even used the appellage whatsoever. And yet, that has been thrown back in my face.


I do not even notice, nor think of you as elder. I think of you, from the posts I have read since your return, as one who has knowledge to share. One who, unlike many, speaks from life experience, rather than internet experience.

[Vicereine]

debate and intelligent arguement are always the way any society evolves.. provided those partaking do not lower themselves to pettyness and cheap shots.

From my perspective, Im not sure I would want to live in the open entirely. Let me be clear, I do not think I am better or worse than anyone else. But Why would I seek the approval or even the acknowledgment of those people whom i find shallow and small minded. I do not need their seal to be myself, the same as they do not need my approval to be themselves. I prefer to be as I am, different and seperate.

As an extension to the debate going on here I would like to ask, if (hyperthetically) we were to unite as a nation of sorts, and make the bold step into the realm of day to day recognition, what would become of those like me?


I believe that a large part of the ongoing debate and unease within the community as to the next stage of evolution (if you pardon the dramatic language) comes down to the simple issue of direction.

There are many 'types' or kin in our society, and within each type there still is not a uniform objective. Until we all have a concrete and global objective within the community no ground shall be gained, as the fine print of any movement forward shall forever be caught in debate with numerous angles and factions of opinion.

This , ofcourse, does not even include the highly debatable point union and community in the virtual world. I for one, although true to myself online, am far braver and open here than I would be in my day to day life. Not becuase of what might occur to me, but becuase of the flack that my family may receive.

There is no real way a 'headcount' of genuine 'campaigners' can be acheived let alone distinguished from those who either seek to open drama, cause friction or, lets face it, lie through their teeth.

As much as it would be a real pleasure to me to be seen to be a part of a uniform society with ethics and direction, a real intelligent persuit of understanding and relative harmonious existance within the world outside of the virtual safety net I hold to. I have to accept that this is unlikely.

So, again , i harp on about family. I would like to highlight the fact that even in this virtual home, we do not exsist in a eutopia. I am not so hippy based (no offense to those who are) that i proclaim love for all. Some wounds simply cannot be healed.

But I would urge realism in our goals. And I would ask that each and every one of us, focus on our own goals within the community rather than trying to force the community into a role it is simply not equiped to deal with.

Just my opinion.

[Malcaius]

the only person in the world who reffers to you still as elder is me, and damn it i belive you have the traits i gave to classify what an elder is to me, so it does'nt matter what folks think about that.

keep posting, keep sharing, and just do your best as always. the trick to keep a cool head in this place is ignore the tripe spouted by those who just love to start a fight, and debating heatedly with those who make valid objections or observations to your writings. otherwise we'll all just have to shut up and there wont be any new posts to talk about.

so to you stefan and the rest of nox, keep up the good work and for those who feel they disagree atleast go oer what your going to say and make your points without flaming or insulting anyone. because Flaming is against the code of nox and i shall smite you.

[Camazotz]

and i shall smite you.


Hopefully even just a tad tongue in cheek Mal? Otherwise...that's against rules in itself

Controvesy will help us to learn and grow, because damn sure no-one's asking any questions about anything else.

I guess sometimes the joy and the problem is that by our nature we include some of the most tempremental people... but it gives us passion.

[Stefan]

And I agree. In the old days (not Old Ways, so don't get started) of Nox's former life, I used to enjoy verbally jousting. I'm older now (not Elder, so ppppbbbbbthhhh!) and feel that a course and bearing is needed.

If this community were sailors, we couldn't hit water if we fell out of the fucking boat...at least, at this moment.

S

[Lauren]

I really don't like to bring in the pettiness of symantics, but since this one seems to be one we are all tripping over and getting stuck on, I would like to try to clear something up.

The word "Elder" has very little bearing or relation to age. The term simply means someone of superior knowledge, education or wisdom in an area or multiple areas. When trying to relating to age the term is "elderly" or "older", but is often substituted with the term "Elder" which is a misuse of the word.

eld·er 1

ADJECTIVE:

Greater than another in age or seniority.
Superior to another or others, as in rank.NOUN:

An older person.
An older, influential member of a family, tribe, or community.
One of the governing officers of a church, often having pastoral or teaching functions.
Mormon Church A member of the higher order of priesthood.ETYMOLOGY:
Middle English eldre, from Old English eldra; see al- 2 in Indo-European roots

OTHER FORMS:
elhttp://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/edu/ref/ahd/s/prime.gifder·shiphttp://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/edu/ref/ahd/s/lprime.gif (Noun)
Usage Note:
The adjective elder is not a synonym for elderly. In comparisons between two persons, elder means "older" but not necessarily "old": My elder sister is sixteen; my younger, twelve. (Eldest is used when three or more persons are compared: He is the eldest of four brothers.) In other contexts elder does denote relatively advanced age but with the added component of respect for a person's achievement, as in an elder statesman. If age alone is to be expressed, one should use older or elderly rather than elder: A survey of older Americans; an elderly waiter.·Unlike elder and its related forms, the adjectives old, older, and oldest are applied to things as well as to persons.

[Stefan]

*begins to chuckle...then giggle...then laugh with great mirth*

You know, Lauren, I thought of doing the same thing at one point...

[Camazotz]

And I agree. In the old days (not Old Ways, so don't get started) of Nox's former life, I used to enjoy verbally jousting. I'm older now (not Elder, so ppppbbbbbthhhh!) and feel that a course and bearing is needed.

If this community were sailors, we couldn't hit water if we fell out of the fucking boat...at least, at this moment.

S

So talk about this course then... perhaps you may find that the reason there is so much controvesy is that the most out-spoken here are also searching for a course for us to move ahead on.

For myself I abhor all this bickering and worse the bitchiness and am trying to say as little as possible for fear of not being able to stop if I do start *laughs*. But why don't we move on then and talk about the future? At least if that leads to debate it shall be more productive for all concerned.

Just my thoughts,
Cama

[Lauren]

I truly did not do that to be a smartass. It's been on my mind for quite a while along with a few other things I've seen brought up. I decided to post that instead of one of my long-winded topics on "Elders". Well, I decided for "now" I will post that instead ;)

L.

[Stefan]

Cama, I will be more than happy to offer a course. Whether or not it is seen as viable is left up to the wafflers and nay-sayers here.

Lauren, I love you to death, sweetie. I never take anything you say as a "smart-assed" response. After all, that's my job...and Stainless...and RK...you see where I'm going here.:D

S

[Camazotz]

Please do Stefan... then we can channel all this energy that's flying around into more fruitful pursuits perhaps :)

[Stefan]

Agreed. Expect something very soon.

[Alyushia]

I'll be watching for it. :)

[Stefan]

I see the chips are falling; even those I know do not speak to me anymore.

I may need another blog here...

[Lauren]

Stefan, Please check your PM's.

[Stefan]

It seems my views and concepts have stirred the disinterest of some...both here and on other sites.

I once heard that you haven't accomplished anything until you owe the government money. I suppose the same could be said about the present situation.

*wants to laugh, but is far too tired at the moment...*

S

[ChadSang]

I respect your ideas and concepts very much. I just wish you could have stayed here to help stear us old farts in the right direction.