THe Vampire's Origins?

[RKCoon]

One thing ive not seen really covered in detail here is where vampirism originates, or, if one wants, the species/race of vampires originates from. maybe i missed it, i dunno.. but im tossing it out here,id like to hear if anyone has thoeries, thoughts or any "evidence" theyd like to share, as to where, and how , we came about.

Im bringing this up, as recently ive heard this rather....curious, theory -- that vampires were created by angels. Now, anyone that knows me, knows my reaction to that, but for now ill toss it on the table as a "possible" theory, to add to discussion.


any takers?

[ChadSang]

From what I've learned and heard from vampires older than me, we (Sangs) have existed for at least several thousand years. I can't give you a resource or any proof of that...it's just something I was taught. I have also seen pictures of some Egyptian hieroglyphics that seemed to portray vampires in various poses.

[Crystalforger]

I have also seen pictures of some Egyptian hieroglyphics...

Nothing to do with our favorite author Anne by any chance? (joke)

Seriously though, I have wondered myself if there might not be an Egyptian or even Atlantean connection somewhere. Certainly though such an answer is likely lost to time... Unless or until we happen upon one of those "immortal vampires" we're always hearing rumors of. (Yes, I'm joking again. I'm in quite the mood tonight)

[ChadSang]

Nothing to do with our favorite author Anne by any chance? (joke)

Seriously though, I have wondered myself if there might not be an Egyptian or even Atlante an connection somewhere. Certainly though such an answer is likely lost to time... Unless or until we happen upon one of those "immortal vampires" we're always hearing rumors of. (Yes, I'm joking again. I'm in quite the mood tonight)

No Anne has absolutely nothing to do with my post. There is no such thing as immortal vampires

[Crystalforger]

Seriously though, I have wondered myself if there might not be an Egyptian or even Atlantean connection somewhere. Certainly though such an answer is likely lost to time...


Everything else in the above post of mine is simply for fun.... Immortal vampires? You can't really think I was serious!

[theoutsider]

As a non-vamp, I'd have literally nothing to say... but I've never kept my mouth shut before, so why start now, eh?

In all seriousness, I've been asking this question my whole time in the vampire community, and it seems there are at least 2 times more theories than vampires. Most are 'pie in the sky' type stuff, but one or two have been interesting. As I said, I really don't have any to add, because I don't have anything approaching proof, and I hate to put forward belief without at least a logical framework to put it in... But I would love to see what's the prevailant idea here.

[Gabrielle]

there is so much stuff that we don't have an answer for, i kind of think that the mysteries of life are what make it worth geting out of bed in the morning

[Liquidess_Shade]

In order for there to be a need, there has to be a balance to correct. Assuming that we are not some form of fetishists that have taken it too far, or that we are not some kind of sick drug addict, then the logical conclusion can come back to an imbalance being created, which brings us back to the classical definition of a vampire as I understand it of someone 'Needing energy'.

Personally, I like to put forth the concept of genetic mutation. It seems logical, allows for the varience in things from family line to family line, and does seem to be an adaptable thing.

What needs to be outlined when asking this is what the physical traits are that make a vampire, a vampire. And how you can even start to believe psy feeding is real in a proveable way to be able to start classifying things and breaking it down.

Least, that's how it goes in my head.

[Malcaius]

it would be nice if we could one day find the true origin of vampires and our vampirisum, for if we found the begining it would be easier to trace the path through time that leads us to the modern VC today.

but i dont have any concrete evidence on any of the theroys that ive read, are we decended from angels or aliens?, are we the children of some dark god, are we mutants, who knows

[Preist]

as far as i have read apart from vampire lore dating centuries back each with there own defanition of the vampire with common traits and how they come into being most of the things i have found came from anton lavey who researched into vampireism in the modern day but again bringing no links back to what it would have been as an origin some say as well modern day vampireism is linked to the punk movments and some other groups to tag identities

i have my own beleife in our origins and origins of those who choose paths more less ordinary for there life length not the ones who do it for recration nor life style but then it takes a leap of faith to beleive in the spirit never mind the beings from the either and a connection to the phyisical
to date no one has been able to prove any kind of mutation or diffrence in us sientificaly mabe outsider that is were you should be looking not in the places were its acepted just were it may be proved for your eyes and mind

Preist

[nexus6]

A good question RKCoon, Its played on my mind for years, and like everyone else here I have never found any proof or even decent theories. My own mad cap take on it is simple evolution of man/woman, We sometimes call it the 'Beast'.... The way I see it is like this....*Pulls out soap box and prepares to bore everyone to death* lol...

As man/woman has evolved we as a species have lost or made redundant certain natural abilities we needed when we were cave men, and as we became so call civilised even more of those abilities have been cast aside... but what if in some people they were still present, again it has eveolved in its own special way so it could co exhist in a modern society.... Look at the monguls in history.... where ever they travelled they would all have at least two horses with them.... the one that trailed behind was 'let of blood' by the mongul so he could drink it and feed..untill such time as the horse became so weak that it was then killed and its meat used for food....In nature there are many blood drinkers, after all as we know it is a great food source... blood rituals of the past in which the blood was revered as carrying the energy or source of the person themselves... so adding two and two together and proably ending up with eight lol...to take ones blood for food is essenciallly taking a part of that person into yourself.. what an intense and intemate way to feed...combine that with the primitive nature that has stayed with us since the dawn of man and you have quite a potent for want of a better word preditor.... It is just as I said at the beginning a mad cap theory, but Im willing to throw it to the floor for any comment or even ridicule lol....
On a serious note thought it does appear we all do share alot of serious traits it seems daft not to try and find the connection we all have, the real similarities in us all perhaps that may give a small clue as to were to look next for the answers to our origins....*puts soap box away and runs for cover* lolol

[darkangel5778]

according to a how I watched...MOST of the way on history...........(at a point I got too disgusted to continue) however there is a theory that vampires, more specifically sangs are mearly the result of an illness (god knows what they called it hehe I have a decent memory not perfect lmao) that required blood in order to survive, the genetic flaw may have with time weakend, or as some might argue since we are mixing races (and no I am NOT racist) our combined strenghts made the genetic flaw ALMOST obsolete, now leaving only a simple desire to consume the blood of other living things in order to draw energy into ourselves, in other words we genetically have a problem maintaining or even GETTING energy so we need it from others, because of a worse genetic flaw long ago. YAY GENETIC SCREWUPS!
but that is my theory, and there are several others lol:D

[nexus6]

Good point about the genetics, and there are many medical cases where people suffer difficiencies of one form or another, only question to this is, the mind set, the way we feel and the similarities in traits between us all, or could that be a way we try and ratioanlise our condition, I would be very interested in your other theories as I think like with alot of things there can be a little truth in most theories no matter how wild or crazy they may be, even as RKCoon said there are theories connecting us to angels, I must admit when someone once told me about angels I thought them a little nieve untill I looked more deeply into it and relised my ignorance. I will post more on the subject and as like yourself my mind is like a seive, it must be my age lolol.... but it has been said angels bonded with women and the off spring (serephim..i think is the name probably spelt wrong lol) where powerful giants, take the interpriation as you will wether giant in staure or giant in thier strengths and abilities, I dont honestly know but it does make you think

[Savion]

References of vampirism can be found in lore tracing back to Egypt, Greece, Rome, and China. There are even tales of vampirism in Mexico before the Europeans arrived. It would seem impossible to trace the origin of a creature known in so many seperate ancient cultures.

In answer to the more modern theories of the origins:

but it has been said angels bonded with women and the off spring (serephim..i think is the name probably spelt wrong lol) where powerful giants, take the interpriation as you will wether giant in staure or giant in thier strengths and abilities, I dont honestly know but it does make you think

This would be the Nephilim. Genesis 4:6 refers to "the Sons of God" whom consorted with mortal women. The product being the Nephilim, a race of giants. The Nephilim soon devoured all food supplies and began to partake of humans for sustinance (Book of Enoch). So unless we are necrophagous I would discount the Nephilim theory.

however there is a theory that vampires, more specifically sangs are mearly the result of an illness (god knows what they called it hehe I have a decent memory not perfect lmao) that required blood in order to survive, the genetic flaw may have with time weakend, or as some might argue since we are mixing races (and no I am NOT racist) our combined strenghts made the genetic flaw ALMOST obsolete, now leaving only a simple desire to consume the blood of other living things in order to draw energy into ourselves, in other words we genetically have a problem maintaining or even GETTING energy so we need it from others, because of a worse genetic flaw long ago. YAY GENETIC SCREWUPS!
but that is my theory, and there are several others lo

Porphyria is the disorder to which you refer, I believe. Symptoms of porphyria:

"Porphyria affects either the nervous system or the skin. When porphyria affects the nervous system, it can cause chest pain, abdominal pain, muscle cramps, weakness, hallucinations, seizures, purple-red-colored urine, or mental disorders like depression, anxiety, and paranoia. When porphyria affects the skin, blisters, itching, swelling, and sensitivity to the sun can result. "

Then another:

Xeroderma Pigmentosum (XP)...
"A group of rare inherited skin disorders characterized by a heightened reaction to sunlight (photosensitivity) with skin blistering occurring after exposure to the sun. In some cases, pain and blistering may occur immediately after contact with sunlight. Acute sunburn and persistent redness or inflammation of the skin (erythema) are also early symptoms of XP. In most cases, these symptoms may be apparent immediately after birth or occur within the next three years. In other cases, symptoms may not develop until later in childhood or, more rarely, may not be recognized until adulthood. Other symptoms of XP may include discolorations, weakness and fragility, and/or scarring of the skin."

[nexus6]

Thankyou Savion, very informative and please excuse my mistake with the Nephillim. With the information you have found do you have any idea's as to the origin or even where best next to look?

[Alyushia]

Pellagra, rabies, and tuberculosis have also been associated with the vampire "myth".
There is an excellent article called Pellagra And The Origin of a Myth, you might want to check it out.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=1296679&pageindex=1#page
It's a PDF file of an article from a medical journal.

[nexus6]

Thanks Alyushia, Ill check it out

[darkangel5778]

I always thought they were noephym lmao but according to the christian bible there are even references in there..........that angels took the daughters of man and produced a race of giants, there are theories that those were the ancient Philistines of the bible (goliath being the most famous) Oh and as far as hearing all my theories? lmao you don't want to go there lmao my mind is a scary place:D

[Savion]

For the true vapire I think it a matter of genetics. It seems most reasonable there is either a flaw in our genetic makeup or, as most so-called elitist, would believe an advance in our genetic makeup.

I have noted many claim vampirism runs in their family. I cannot make such a claim. I cannot claim indisputably my vampirism is hereditary, though I suspect a few. This could be also because the gene is recessive.

It seems highly unlikely any one disease could cause the tales that affected every ancient culture. When the vampire myths began the cultures were much more isolated. For example there is no way the cultures of the Mediteranean Basin could have intermingled with the cultures of Mexico. It seems to me viruses came more into question after the television series Ultraviolet presented it as a the cause in the show.

Alyushia, indeed, all were a source of tales of vampirism. Rabies because of the bloody froth and adversion to mirrors. Tuberculosis or "consumption" seems to be the source more often than other diseases because of the appearance of blood at the mouth.

If one were to believe in reincarnation, a theory I've have read several times is that of the vampire soul being that of something other than human, or a human soul damaged in the process of rebirth causing a deficiency in energy.

Parasites...if anyone just jumps on this one I will not post further. It is hot topic of debate, one I find nonsense. In this theory a human host, perfectly normal, carries a parasitic entity. This entity causes a deficiency by taking from the host, forcing the host to seek to replenish its own energy.

Oh and as far as hearing all my theories? lmao you don't want to go there lmao my mind is a scary place

So is mine, darlin. I would like to hear your thoughts. I am always interested in new ideas. I remember reading of Goliath's connection to the Nephilim. The first were supposedly eliminated by the flood and the second coupling of the Watchers and woman produced many known later as the Anakim. Although this could be a variation of the Sumerian word Anunnaki, and therefore would equate the Nephilim with Sumerian demigods.

If anyone would like to discuss any of these in depth I would be glad share the information I have. Until then I must get coffee....

[nexus6]

Savion, thankyou, this is a great help and I must agree that genetics, is more a likely source than any other theory Ive heard, As for parasites or desease, again a very good arguement you raise against them. I would love to discuss this subject in greater depth with you any any information you have to share would be very gratefully recieved again many thanks for all the information you have already posted.... nexus

[Lost]

Genetics would be a grand place to start, however with the pace of research into DNA being heavily restricted by technology it will be quite some time before answers are found. A problem arising with the genetic theorem is the sporadic presentation of vampirism in individuals throughout the population and the lack of medical research into the condition.

The additional problems is the manner in which our genetic make up can be effected, there are numerous avenues and combinations of events that can cause dramatic outcomes causing mutations, deletions, additions and not all are inherited. There seem to be few reports of vampirism being inherited or passed on to offspring, which only further complicates matters as it may then be a random occurrence subject to a multitude of influences and thusly difficult to isolate.

As a theory I feel that a deficiency or inability to create and retain bio-energy could be an attributing factor if not the cause of vampirism. The human body contains, creates and emits numerous forms of energy, which can be obtained by a range of sources, food, movement, light etc. There have been a few clinical trials involving neural energy emission, examining whether it is possible for the energy emitted by an individual responding to stimulus can cause a response in another person at distance without viewing the stimulus.

From the article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15165411

“These results indicate that in some pairs of human subjects a signal may be detected in the brain of a distant member of the pair when the brain of the other member is visually stimulated. These data support the findings of similar studies performed in seven laboratories reported in the peer-reviewed literature since 1963”.

Where I feel this pertains to vampires is this function may be amplified by the inability to produce adequate energy the deficiency causing the body to actively seek and absorb energy to maintain balance. This may be the result of a genetic anomaly or it could be that our output of energy outweighs our ability to absorb energy through the usual process. Just another theory to add to the list.

[nexus6]

Some very good points here, as you say amd Im not sure on this point but if it is genetic should it effect other family members and a very good point, how come it manifests inus all at different times within our lives. Something else I'd like t throw in here is the nature of the beast and how the beast rises within us when we feed.... I know myself with being a late stater so to speak, I actually started to look on the net for a mental condition as I had been fascinated with vampires all my life and how it made me feel when I saw them feed in films or as described in books, and even though it caused problems in my marriage because my fascination was so strong I could not bury it...no matter how hard I tried i just kept rising from deep within me...I dont know if this is the same for other people too.....

[gypsy mouse]

For the true vapire I think it a matter of genetics. It seems most reasonable there is either a flaw in our genetic makeup or, as most so-called elitist, would believe an advance in our genetic makeup.

I have noted many claim vampirism runs in their family. I cannot make such a claim. I cannot claim indisputably my vampirism is hereditary, though I suspect a few. This could be also because the gene is recessive.

It seems highly unlikely any one disease could cause the tales that affected every ancient culture. When the vampire myths began the cultures were much more isolated. For example there is no way the cultures of the Mediteranean Basin could have intermingled with the cultures of Mexico. It seems to me viruses came more into question after the television series Ultraviolet presented it as a the cause in the show.

Alyushia, indeed, all were a source of tales of vampirism. Rabies because of the bloody froth and adversion to mirrors. Tuberculosis or "consumption" seems to be the source more often than other diseases because of the appearance of blood at the mouth.

If one were to believe in reincarnation, a theory I've have read several times is that of the vampire soul being that of something other than human, or a human soul damaged in the process of rebirth causing a deficiency in energy.

Parasites...if anyone just jumps on this one I will not post further. It is hot topic of debate, one I find nonsense. In this theory a human host, perfectly normal, carries a parasitic entity. This entity causes a deficiency by taking from the host, forcing the host to seek to replenish its own energy.



So is mine, darlin. I would like to hear your thoughts. I am always interested in new ideas. I remember reading of Goliath's connection to the Nephilim. The first were supposedly eliminated by the flood and the second coupling of the Watchers and woman produced many known later as the Anakim. Although this could be a variation of the Sumerian word Anunnaki, and therefore would equate the Nephilim with Sumerian demigods.

If anyone would like to discuss any of these in depth I would be glad share the information I have. Until then I must get coffee....


*takes notes*

[EtuMalku]

I have been taught that it is mostly a condition of the Soul and then a subtle reconditioning of the body. Certainly not a genetic evolution or deficiency, although it is possible to be born as a vampire. Whereas there might be those with damaged Chakra centers and the need to replenish them I see these people along with energy workers not as true vampires. The human soul is replaced wih the vampiric soul ( your awakening) and becomes disconnected from the Primordial God-Head source of the Universe. The Divine intervention for human souls to attain their ascension to be atoned with God has been replaced with the path of Free & True Will, A solitary and dark path yet a very personal and far more rewarding one. Blood is merely the vessel at which the freshest and most abundant life force is absorbed from as we all know, obsessing over blood is just that and should be addressed within your psyche.

These are my beliefs.

[Savion]

The human soul is replaced wih the vampiric soul ( your awakening) and becomes disconnected from the Primordial God-Head source of the Universe.

Are you refering to a death/resurrection vampirism? It seems to me the soul remains unchanged, if you are to be vampiric it must be so at birth.

The physical manifestation of blood need comes with adolesence in most cases. Adolesence marks the transition into a new period of life (more stress, responsibilty, and pressure). Though many awaken later. I would guess this mostly likely denial. They awakened normally but either did not have the knowledge or resources to find out what was happening to them or, as nexus points out, it is mistaken for a mental condition.

Where childhood is usually free of stress and liberating, some have a horrific time of it. Many I know have, in fact, come into the blood need preteen. After many hours of talking, probing, and investigating I have noticed that the stress of the abuse, both physical and psychological, brings an earlier awakening. When life and its stresses begin to deplete your energies faster than you can replace them, an awakening process begins. This could be a survival mechanism. (Early awakening)

The Divine intervention for human souls to attain their ascension to be atoned with God has been replaced with the path of Free & True Will, A solitary and dark path yet a very personal and far more rewarding one.

If atonement has been replaced with Free &True Will what occurs at the moment of death exactly? Perhaps it would be more rewarding in this life but what of the after-life? If one is to believe in atonement then it must be counterbalanced with damnation, no? Please elaborate upon this point.

Whereas there might be those with damaged Chakra centers and the need to replenish them I see these people along with energy workers not as true vampires.


Blood is merely the vessel at which the freshest and most abundant life force is absorbed from as we all know, obsessing over blood is just that and should be addressed within your psyche.


I see contradiction in these statements. First of all, if "blood is merely the vessel at which the freshest and most abundant life force is absorbed" then what might be the other sources? Elaborate please, I am most curious.

I would think genetics the most likely source for a variety of reasons but the most dominate is one I mentioned before: The far spread knowledge of vampirism. How did persons on an unknown continent have a creature with such similarities to those European, Asian, Africa, etc... if there were not some basis in fact? While disease could be blamed...not all continents had the same diseases. Case in point small pox typhus, measles, influenza, bubonic plague, mumps, yellow fever, and pertussis (whooping cough) were brough to the Native American by the Europeans. No one in the Americas had any of these until the Europeans brought them.

Though I use the Americas as an example there is an oddity...Native American culture pre European (North America) seems to have no vampire type creature. Please do not bring up Jumlin. I have never heard of this tale until stumbling across the site of Catherine NightPoe. I am of European/Native American heritage and therefore have researched this subject in depth. Not once before did Jumlin come up. Methinks he is the invention of Ms. NightPoe. If anyone knows of any such lore please let me know. Discuss anyone?

[KISISSA ELOLAM SELASSIE]

Looking For Something Are We? Every One Is Born Under Different Circumstances It Seems, When We Try To Capture The Origin Of A Thing It Will Only Know, Flee And Find Another Way To Be.thats What Makes It Original. I'm Sure In Your Darkest Hour Your Makers Told All Of You How This Realm Came To Be.i'm Sure No One Here Want To Be Hunted Back To Root Of Thier Exsistance, I Always Thought If One Knew How Or Why Or Where About Me It Would Be The End Of My Ass.

[EtuMalku]

Are you refering to a death/resurrection vampirism? It seems to me the soul remains unchanged, if you are to be vampiric it must be so at birth.

Not all vampires are born that way


If atonement has been replaced with Free &True Will what occurs at the moment of death exactly? Perhaps it would be more rewarding in this life but what of the after-life? If one is to believe in atonement then it must be counterbalanced with damnation, no? Please elaborate upon this point

A vampiric path and a mundane path both end up at the same place but from two different roads.


I see contradiction in these statements. First of all, if "blood is merely the vessel at which the freshest and most abundant life force is absorbed" then what might be the other sources? Elaborate please, I am most curious.

Surely you know that one can take prana from many other sources, although fresh blood is the finest of life vibrations there are others, one being ambient feeding.

[Preist]

Looking For Something Are We? Every One Is Born Under Different Circumstances It Seems, When We Try To Capture The Origin Of A Thing It Will Only Know, Flee And Find Another Way To Be.thats What Makes It Original. I'm Sure In Your Darkest Hour Your Makers Told All Of You How This Realm Came To Be.i'm Sure No One Here Want To Be Hunted Back To Root Of Thier Exsistance, I Always Thought If One Knew How Or Why Or Where About Me It Would Be The End Of My Ass.

And well said there i have to agree even when we look for the origins of our selves we will never know the full extent or even part there of and as i have tried to say before its all therie based on what we can find and in some cases what we can scrounge up based loosley on others hear say

for a long time i have kept what i THOUGHT to my self for those reasons but since we are going into that teratory my therie is this

As an energy worker for many a year now and watching the energy flows of others and seeing what it attracts or more ot a point what it can attract from the the spirit side
any one in here who has delt with energy through magicks or healing will have at some point noticed what they feel as an attack moving in on them we say attack because its something unerving that we cant fully explain and thus interprit as an attack upon our selves and for those who have read the occult section its been stated more than once i am sure by my self and Cama that these feelings may not be an attack as such and should be investigated further before the big blazing guns of battle are brought out and some poor smoo gets it in the head

on this same princaple i can suggest that certian energy workings and types attract certain energy beings if you will and if thought on as just a therie if we go ot the time of our own births there was most definatly alot of energy in that room not from our selves but from pain anguish love and sometimes seer agresion (to all the mothers here am sure if you cant relate to that as a simple description you will know what you went through and it was no easy walk in the park)
now having that energy there in that room wouldnt it attract something there has been a few who can relate to other vampires in there family and a few that cant but in any case if this type of spirit is around a family or even around in an area then mabey it would be attracted to this energy as it would inevatibly stand out if the child is used as a vessel the vampire spirit can or would reside within such a vessel in an unawakend stage litteraly just seeping what it needs in a hiberntaing state (again all just a therie no linching please)

puberty or times of high stress causing an energy shift within the vessel aka the human being awakaning the spirit at said timing (namely why between teen years and beyond)
at the time of an awakanng many find this to be a time of paranoia and anguish(those of you who are will no doubt remember this) now take that in this therie as the confusion of another consciousness being brought into motion within our selves and no doubt we can all imagine that two consciousness within one vessel will be confusing untill as we inherantly will do get used to the fact of just as we do with pain and all other emotions we get used to it and then most of us move on

with the second it is now awake needing more energy than before as its now not hibernating within the vessel its active within the vessel needing more of what it Has needed in the past to keep its self in a constant state

this is my therie but again it cant be proved my take on vampires sang or psi is its a spiratual state not a condition of the physical but within everything in life plauges of the mind can manifest into plagues of the phyisical

this dosent explain an origin but for me it helps me deal with what i am and were i came from this time around (not taking into consideration past life memories as some cant stomach these *fair enough*)

the concept of the origin of the vampire spirit is another therie but one that can wait

Preist

[nexus6]

Ooooh this Vampire spirit springs a chord with me, it certainly could explain a few things. Spirit and energy are two things I do consider to be upper most in my way of thinking. Thanks Preist again as ever food for thought. Cheers buddy *Runs away to bury myself into more reading!!!* lol

[Preist]

I have been taught that it is mostly a condition of the Soul and then a subtle reconditioning of the body. Certainly not a genetic evolution or deficiency, although it is possible to be born as a vampire. Whereas there might be those with damaged Chakra centers and the need to replenish them I see these people along with energy workers not as true vampires. The human soul is replaced wih the vampiric soul ( your awakening) and becomes disconnected from the Primordial God-Head source of the Universe. The Divine intervention for human souls to attain their ascension to be atoned with God has been replaced with the path of Free & True Will, A solitary and dark path yet a very personal and far more rewarding one. Blood is merely the vessel at which the freshest and most abundant life force is absorbed from as we all know, obsessing over blood is just that and should be addressed within your psyche.

These are my beliefs.

sorry there seems i missed a page when i done my last response there my bad ok reading the above statement it sounds similar to what the Psi vampire codex says within its pages from house kheperu esspecialy on the damaged chakra point but again on this i cant take away from that fact as i know it to be aparent when i have been working with other vampires during mediation sessions or doing healing with them even through to doing actual Reiki attunments with a vampire the chakra thing amoungst other things is apparent to me

with regards to the god head rource and being disconected to this can you explain further within this as i still do know others who can still utalise energy from any said god head as it is again only an energy source (my opinion not theres fully)

as for free will i feel each and every person on this plannet has the gift of free will its something that i have taken from what i was taught in chaos "Liber Null"

as for the vessel of energy with that i do agree again as its something i have written about within the articles section on hybrid feeding but no matter

Preist

[Savion]

Not all vampires are born that way




A vampiric path and a mundane path both end up at the same place but from two different roads.




Surely you know that one can take prana from many other sources, although fresh blood is the finest of life vibrations there are others, one being ambient feeding.

I would like a bit more. At least the most rudimentary information.

I did not ask if all vampires are born this way. I asked if you were refering to death/resurrection type of vampirism. If it is a condition of the soul what change occurs that triggers the blood need? It seems to me the soul is incorporated into the body as it will remain until death. Unless a near-death or death and resurrection occured.

If one chooses to shun the God-Head at one point how can there be redemption without reconnection with the God-Head?

I know about prana. Wouldn't ambient feeding give credibility to energy manipulators? If we as Sangs take energy in such a way why is it not feasible they sustain themselves completely this way?

[EtuMalku]

I asked if you were refering to death/resurrection type of vampirism. What is that?

If it is a condition of the soul what change occurs that triggers the blood need? It seems to me the soul is incorporated into the body as it will remain until death. Unless a near-death or death and resurrection occured.
It is not blood but the prana that is required. There are 7 parts of the soul (Ba) and not all of them are chained to the body.


If one chooses to shun the God-Head at one point how can there be redemption without reconnection with the God-Head? I'm afraid there isn't

I know about prana. Wouldn't ambient feeding give credibility to energy manipulators?
Indeed it does

[Vicereine]

Sorry to jump into this thread as well. I would like to add here EM that it would seem a fair few of us are trying to get our heads around this take on things, this by no means we are trying to discredit it.

I would have to agree here that there seems to be some confusion over the finer points of the theory's you discuss here.

You say that ambiant feeding adds some credibility to energy workers, does this mean the that you see these types as selective vampires?

I would be very interested to hear a further description of the vampire spirit that you talk about.

[Savion]

What Vicereine has said above. I would like more as well.

[MLE]

I've not replyed to this sooner simply because I don't have much to add, but it is a very interesting topic, and would also love to see more..

[Preist]

Just as an after thought on this subject of the God head figure from other posts you refer to Isis as sort of the origionator of kermatic vampireism now i say this loosley because of the fact i am still peicing together some things i am taking it there is no Worship to Isis as that would acknowledge the God head and you have to break from that to be vampire as you are saying and not to return to that for redemption just for seer reconection and is this Isis that you or the aset Ka Hope ot return to

in this senario there is a therie that God or in general the universal energy couldnt expand and thus created living beings who could expand through things like emotions and how they lived now this caused the electric feild internaly and externaly (auras) to fluxuate the current of the feild if the feild hadent got to a large enough state someone couldnt get back to the universal energy but indeed came back until the feild had gotten to its required state ie experianced enough through life times to be usefull to the God head so to speak

this therie i will keep the aurthor to my self just now but he was attaning this therie from old egyptian and myan ledgends of wich he deciferd from temple ruins but this didnt apply to any perticular branch of life just from life its self

why would it be diffrent for a vampire rather than a human ??

if a human disconects from the god head does this mean there vampire or just mundane human getting on with things but dosent heed a god head i.e are sientists who beleive in fact vampire ??

i think that for this to go ahead there is alot of questions to be answerd and i think it best if they are because other than that things will get confusing

Preist

[Vicereine]

on a random side note. When i went to witchfest in 05. I met and spoke with a lady who told me she was a high priestess of Isis. She was in her late 60's or early 70's I would guess. She was taking great pleasure in seeing so many young pagans of all walks enjoying time together.

She walked (it took some time as she was using sticks) to my group and sat with us for about an hour. She said she was 'attracted to the unusual energy around us all' and spoke at length about how important it was that we follow what we held dear. Its important to note that we were all in points of flux in our lives one way or another.

She had a great energy about her and was a strong female. Probably one of the strongest I have been around without them being agressive or Kin. It was a quiet strength and acceptance.

Just thought I would mention it as Isis came up

[gypsy mouse]

whats all this talk about god head???....... sounds sexual to me.....
do you really think religion has anything at all to do with vampirism?? was it predetermined by a being higher then ourselves? or is it that weve separated that does it to us??
is this a search for the mother and father? if it is you can have a peek in anne rices queen of the damned...they have a nice Sumerian, Egyptian, vampiric king and queen in there.

but the vampires roots...its origins... is that of the rest of the human race.....and lets not dive back into that "vampires are not humans" crap....(ya all know how i feel about that.) a very natural progression that has its own personal derivatives. genetics......its in your dna.....might be a fluke of nature but its natural and litteraly at the root of the matter. its within, not without.....so ya might wanna leave the ol gods out of it least you piss them off.....*smiles*

[Vicereine]

chuckles.... yeah i know what you are saying Gypsy. Anne Rice tied it all up nicely.

However, I do think that there is merit with this debate/discussion. We are spiritual beings as well (and by we I mean humans and kin alike). Im a strong beleiver in spiritual healing, that can be through prayer or Reiki or crystal etc etc... its all about channeling the energies and realignment. Therefore, if we are spiritual enough to accept energy manipulation and healing from it, we have to consider the possibility of higher power. Perhaps not conscious entirely, maybe accumilation of energy from exchange etc..... nothing is ever tied off entirely.

Its also interesting to note the passage of vampirism through lore and history. There is no smoke without fire and while I do not accept the flying transmutation that is dracula there are some ideas I will entertain.....

Love, for example is a spiritual emotion. It ties into the soul. It can have physiological effects ... pretty impressive for a chemical reaction... Chemical reaction, ok, i can accept that, but what causes it in relation to another person? thats the bit i dont get.

Its the same with vampiric origins... there is the school of thought of genetics, but nothing has ever been proven to satisfaction and again I think there it might happen after the effect.. WHAT causes the DNA to mutate. What causes cells to duplicate?... what causes the energy that resides in the space between neutrons?... science is like a low class table dancer, shows you everything you want to see but you cant quite reconcile why you gave her the money....

[gypsy mouse]

chuckles.... yeah i know what you are saying Gypsy. Anne Rice tied it all up nicely.

However, I do think that there is merit with this debate/discussion. We are spiritual beings as well (and by we I mean humans and kin alike). Im a strong beleiver in spiritual healing, that can be through prayer or Reiki or crystal etc etc... its all about channeling the energies and realignment. Therefore, if we are spiritual enough to accept energy manipulation and healing from it, we have to consider the possibility of higher power. Perhaps not conscious entirely, maybe accumilation of energy from exchange etc..... nothing is ever tied off entirely.

Its also interesting to note the passage of vampirism through lore and history. There is no smoke without fire and while I do not accept the flying transmutation that is dracula there are some ideas I will entertain.....

Love, for example is a spiritual emotion. It ties into the soul. It can have physiological effects ... pretty impressive for a chemical reaction... Chemical reaction, ok, i can accept that, but what causes it in relation to another person? thats the bit i dont get.

Its the same with vampiric origins... there is the school of thought of genetics, but nothing has ever been proven to satisfaction and again I think there it might happen after the effect.. WHAT causes the DNA to mutate. What causes cells to duplicate?... what causes the energy that resides in the space between neutrons?... science is like a low class table dancer, shows you everything you want to see but you cant quite reconcile why you gave her the money....

your spiritual stance is one thing.....it has little to no relation to vampiric nature. many are energy workers and sooo not kin...its the forces avalible to us through the world (earth, sky, water...all its counterparts.....including living beings) it all gives off energy and many with open minds and heightened awareness will pick a magical path...instead of those liad out to us through the church. and just cause there is energy to be worked with.....does not necessarily mean that a god put it there.

id love to see a genetic break down of about 20 alleged vampires. i feel in my heart of heart there will be missplaced chromosomes and awry dna strands. once those have been looked at steps can be taken to see if its passed through the dna or if there was something in life that caused things to "change". but currently you live in myth. just try and get 20 vamps to all agree to be poked, prodded, and studied. ohhh then get um to hand over their children for the same thing. its hard to run a in depth study when your ginnea pigs hide in shadows.

and as for love....the things we are attracted to (for whatever reason) gets our chemicals flowin...releases the endorphins (sp) that make us happy. its is purely chemical.....some we are attracted to more then others......the more there is to love the more we get our chemicals excited.

[Vicereine]

smiles... I disklike the term God anyway, it leads to assumptions. I do use the terms gods and goddesses simply because its how i equate them.

Spiritual belief and science arent necessarily exempt from each other. As i said before, i agree with you on the chemical response explanation for love, but what tells our brain that what we are looking at requires it? Everyones tastes are so different its not a specific formula, and im not talking attraction. Im talking love. Scientists have proven that people are more attracted to facial balance and similarity to their own, attraction. Not love.

Its the spaces between the evidence that compells me to believe that there is something more. That and astral experience. Also readings by strangers that contain messages from my mother. specific messages. THere are to many things that the content is explained but not the motivation. The initiative but not the force.

*hugs gypsy* sheeeeeeeeeeeesh its been a while , i do love our debates hun

[gypsy mouse]

*hugs tight* no joke!!

i won't deny the possibility of there being "gods". i just deny that they had any effect on vamprisim........besides the fact our ancestors were bred into exsistance by the so called "gods". what has happened since then (i feel) has been what you could call outside influences.....they made us, and through generations and exposure we have become what we are. they didnt make vampire.....therian....black....white...evil...... good. they made a slave race that many think has long been abandoned. exposure has let or bodys change....being unregulated, we have blossomed into many different factors. we are running a muck in our numbers. and losing touch with reality. and it all comes down to fucked up, forcefully mutated, genetically altered genes from long ago.
this planet was never meant to house "us". we are a purposeful, genetic experiment....a slave race.....and the gods are still with us......(think on that) take it back to Samaria or a step further and see what you find.
we are what we have become, but that is not who we were created to be.

[Shadowpsi]

here is my thoughts

what i'm going to try to explain is the first reason energy was needed, why we seem to have more 6th type senses, and why we seem to be able to pull energy from blood and places around us so easy.

I think that at first there was a problem with the aura of some sort. this caused people to need more energy then a normal person creates by normal means. people may have turned to blood for this, others may have also sought out areas that were full of energy that they could sit and take into themselfs.

people because of this started to get more senstive to energy itself due to needing to find it and take it into themselfs. These new ways of sensing things would have lead to the need for even more energy. people then adapted to be able to take in energy much more easily via blood or taking it directly or both

I do not believe this happen slowly but rather quickly and i believe this evolution is the cause of the awakening people feel.

people maybe born with a damaged aura or some other need for energy. peopel like this get by simply by absorbing energy around them. around the time of awakening people report the sensing of weird things and energy is the first thing to come then the hunger. I believe this is because the awakening is the body adapting these senses to feel out energy and other things that may have an effect on the "abnormal" auric body. this extra functions of the auric body in the way of awakened senses creates the growing hunger that people say come at the later part of an awakening

this idea is not fully complete but it's something i have been thinking for a while now, but i think any explanation needs to explain the awakening cause if it's all from birth why are people awakening from 10-17 rather the being awakened at birth.

i think there is NO single original cause too many vamps seem to come from so many walks of life and the vampire lore is in so many cultures

[Camazotz]

You feel it's more in the aura then, rather than the chakra system?

[Shadowpsi]

could be both, like i was saying i don't think there is a single cause we can point to some people may have a aura issue others a chakra system reason

[Preist]

the chakra system and aura sort of go hand in hand one effects the other in most cases but i can see were your coming from on it one of the techniques i use more efficiantly is done through the aura

it goes along with my own therie of it being more a spiratual body thing rather than purely a physical thing
thanks for putting up your therie there S psi
Preist

[Shadowpsi]

the reason i'm going down that road is the way i figure is, the energy needed is a auric spiritual energy rather then some sort of chemical energy reaction so i figure the cause has to be in that area.

also i figure if it has to do with the body a medical test may have found it out or something by now

[Preist]

well exactly medical sience has came to far not to have found something and as it goes i think more healers dealing with energy notice more from a vamp but cant place what it is or how it never heals in cases of chakra point damage

Preist

[Shadowpsi]

science how ever IS starting to say people do seem to have a energy field around them this comes after years of them saying no way people could have such a thing