Natural born leaders?

[darklin]

This has been on my mind for a while now so i thought id share my thoughts and feeling on the subject.
Are we natural born leaders?
I have found that most kin i have come to know are and Im not sure if this is just a coisidence or it is connected in some way to being what we are?
Since going back to college after 3 yrs off and being now awakened if found it a whole new experience.Ive always been a leader in most of the things i do and have a gift for guiding people who arent very confident.Its like a catch 22 situation though i find because i will lead others and be the one with all the ideas but really i dont feel very confident myself and could probably do with takin some of my own advice but never the less i will stand up and be counted without even thinking about it untill afterwards when my heart sometimes sink at what i have accomplished for myself and others.
Its like a confidence that i dont want to admit to myself which i find very confusing at time lol
This is just my veiw on things but id love to know ur opinions about it all just to see if im going off on a tangen with my own thoughts or if there is something connected?
Darklin

[menace]

whell ime deffinately not a leader. i dont have the confidence for that sort of thing i just keep yo my self and lead my self
every one else can piss off for all i care because they dont listen to good advice and gennerly do what they want anyhow.

[darklin]

Very true hun and i can see why u feel that way.I dont have much patinece for myself but for others that i know are willing to learn and sat and example to others from the advice im giving then i have all the time in the world for.

[bloodraven]

I dont like to lead, but it's seems all the people I meet rely on my advice, and value my opinion more than I do sometimes. My family say I am a natural leader...I dont think so, though.

[MLE]

I dont like to lead, but it's seems all the people I meet rely on my advice, and value my opinion more than I do sometimes. My family say I am a natural leader...I dont think so, though.


I can relate.. I feel uncomfortable leading others, but have done well at it when tried..

[incubus]

I do not know , I am on the wall with this..... I do not beleive I was born to it as much as I have been just in the right place / time.

I view myself as a servant though not a leader.

[kyuuketsuki_kurai]

I can lead, but I choose not to. I used to be more of a leader when I was younger, but now I really don't like to.

[theoutsider]

I think that people tend to follow those that seem to understand themselves... and I think that, as a group, the 'otherkin' tend to feel that they understand themselves better than most people feel they do. That is to say, you have more confidence in your knowledge of yourself than most people do.

Because you have such a different and sometimes unaccepted path that you take, it forces you to examine yourself more than most people are ever forced to do. That, in turn, tends to give you more confidence in your own right to exist and be counted, even when you are thinking about other things. That's what most people are willing to follow; someone who is confident in themselves as a person.

I don't think it's inborn, but merely a side-effect of the life that you have to live to think of yourself as 'otherkin' of any variety.

[darklin]

I would have to completly agree with u there outsider and thank you very much for ur input....
I surprise myself on a daily basis..I wouldnt say for one minute that im a confident person or better than anyone else but i seem to natrualy glide into situations and help make them run more smoothly?And im noramly nominated to take the lead i dont ever put myself forward without a nudge from others...

[Zahaqiel]

I've had the natural born leader feeling. In some ways, some of the stranger abilities that some vampires manifest (has anyone come across the mesmer?) seem geared in that direction. But at the same time, it could just be a confidence thing.

[theoutsider]

I still find it funny that so many people think that the abilities that they seem to manifest are because they are 'vampires', 'otherkin', 'drainers' or something else... Especially seeing as how, in many cases, those same abilities are common to others in the human world who have gone through the same level of self-examination and self-realization as you.

It seems to me that most, if not all, of your 'special abilities' stems from you simply seeing in yourself what so many others have failed to see. Not because it's not there, but because they have failed to look...

[darklin]

Again i will agree with u there outsider :) i beleave that everyone has it in them its just a case of them not wanting to open to it.The thing i find that holds most people back is that not understanding something bring about a fear of the not knowing.And most people are more than willing to go through life never wanting more than they have playing it safe so to speak...I dont ever regret taking the leap of faith if i can call it that but for me ive always known myself inside and out and its only now that im comfortable within myself enough to have the confidence to explore it further.
Darklin

[menace]

all it takes to lead is for the rest of the line to take one step back

[RevDevon]

Though ,I don't consider myself a leader I know others sometimes do ...All I try not to do is have them follow me into the dark ....Rather then lead I usually like to walk beside the others and explore the options head on together ...Though when I do have to take on the role as I know some rely on my direction as long as I am able to present them with the options needed ...As it is always yourself who have the final word on whatever destiny you choose to take

[Eclecta]

Fine,fine.. I'll lead you all! Muahahha!

All jokes aside, I'm one who shies away from leading anyone anywhere.. but I can do it if I have too.

I always feel like those who want to lead def shouldn't and those who don't want to half of them are naturals..

[Zahaqiel]

I still find it funny that so many people think that the abilities that they seem to manifest are because they are 'vampires', 'otherkin', 'drainers' or something else... Especially seeing as how, in many cases, those same abilities are common to others in the human world who have gone through the same level of self-examination and self-realization as you.

It seems to me that most, if not all, of your 'special abilities' stems from you simply seeing in yourself what so many others have failed to see. Not because it's not there, but because they have failed to look...
It's possible, but I've yet to find, among the occult community anyway, anyone who's managed to perform the mesmer. Even those who perform the "evil eye" exercises from Liber MMM.

[theoutsider]

And, to be honest, I've never found a convincing demonstration, anywhere, of anyone doing something that I couldn't do with enough training and practice other than giving birth.

Point simply being that, if you can 'perform the mesmer', anyone can. They just have to be willing to give up what you've had to... (That is, of course, if you actually can pull the mesmer -- which I truly doubt.) The potential exists, but most people don't capitalize on it.

[incubus]

If anyone could do anything others could, there would be no fun in life.

Sure alot of energy aspects can be learned, but those born to it are alot dif then those who have to work hard at it. For instance art, some just can draw its in them...... others can practice for ever an still no good.

It is foolish to think any can do something. We all have our potentials and our born traits. Yours is to annoy me lol

[theoutsider]

If anyone could do anything others could, there would be no fun in life.

Sure alot of energy aspects can be learned, but those born to it are alot dif then those who have to work hard at it. For instance art, some just can draw its in them...... others can practice for ever an still no good.

It is foolish to think any can do something. We all have our potentials and our born traits. Yours is to annoy me lol

Point taken... But the potential, however limited, exists in all of us. Even for the most amazing of talents... The question really becomes how much are you willing to give up.

For instance, in the case of art, many people who have experienced brain trauma have incurred some strange increases in certain abilities. They have given up much of their higer thought, but have attained an ability to make beauty seem easy. Or, in the case of Mathematical genuis, many who have normal-seeming thought patterns were able to join the names of the greats through perseverance and hard work, sometimes at the expence of their entire lives. (Einstien is a perfect example of a somewhat bright individual that lived the life of a genius...)

What you have, point blank, anyone can have. Maybe you are born with a propensity towards certain skills. I have always seen something in a logical light that others sometimes cannot see at first. But if you work hard enough, you can see what I see too... I know that my hand-eye co-ordination has taken many years of hard work to perfect while the rest of my family were naturally athletic. Was I born with less potential? Yes. But I gained the same ability through hard work and training.

You are what you choose to be. What you are born with is simply the starting point.

[theoutsider]

And, as an aside, you cannot fulfill _all_ of your potential. You would never have enough time to be everything; smart and knowledgeable, strong, fast, and reflexive, combat-ready and spiritual... And even if you had enough time to do everything, some things are contradictory. Some strengths become weaknesses in other areas: Raw physical strength means a slowing down of your muscle speed.

That's really what makes us different; what we choose to be.

[incubus]

I did not choose to be as I am, beleive that. I would not be as I am if it was choice in many things.

And you can have alot of muscle with speed (has a friend who hit 350lbs per square inch) an could do so 3 times per second... :)

[Zahaqiel]

And, to be honest, I've never found a convincing demonstration, anywhere, of anyone doing something that I couldn't do with enough training and practice other than giving birth.

Point simply being that, if you can 'perform the mesmer', anyone can. They just have to be willing to give up what you've had to... (That is, of course, if you actually can pull the mesmer -- which I truly doubt.) The potential exists, but most people don't capitalize on it.
I disagree. Some people just have certain gifts that other people, with no amount of training can obtain. Some people are capable of seeing spirits, and others just can't no matter how hard they try. Some people get visions of the future, and some people don't. I've used the mesmer with varying degrees of success depending on who I'm using it on. I've yet to meet a non-vampire who has managed to perform it.

Happens in all areas of life.

[menace]

to be a leader all it takes is for the rest of the line to take one step back

[darklin]

forgot to ask...........

darklin - if you are a member of the VN or other group: you started the idea there too or got the idea from there?

this is very interesting!
I read relating (different subjects) posts everywhere in waves.......

something to muss about for a while....

The question came from me hun it was a personal thing i wanted to find out what other thought about so *stamps copy writes on it*lol

[theoutsider]

I disagree. Some people just have certain gifts that other people, with no amount of training can obtain. Some people are capable of seeing spirits, and others just can't no matter how hard they try. Some people get visions of the future, and some people don't. I've used the mesmer with varying degrees of success depending on who I'm using it on. I've yet to meet a non-vampire who has managed to perform it.

Happens in all areas of life.

I do agree that some people have talents that go beyond what others can hope for... but in the same breath, it's the level of ability in those talents that cannot be achieved, not the ability to do anything wrt that particular talent.

As for talents that go beyond the human range... I've never, not once, seen them. I've never, ever seen even a slightly "maybe-it's-possible" demonstration of the talents that you've described, other than mesmerising which is really simply hypnosis, if I understand you. Nobody has ever provided me with the slightest shred of ghost-watching or clairivoance or any paranormal talent. So it's hard for me to be anything less than skeptical about your inborn vampiric traits, especially when I see so many in the RLV community that are either delusional or agreeing with me that they are nothing more than human.

[MLE]

With all due respect, it is not our place to put on demonstrations.. Maybe you haven't seen these things because you aren't meant to.

[darklin]

I would have to agree with MLE here outsider with the upmost respect to ur opinions which are vaild dont get me wrong but as she said we arent here to perform anything to satifiy anyones needs.The gifts that people posess shouldnt have to be scrutanised in this way.Ive never said im anything special in anyway shape or form all i ask is to be accepted which iam with open arms here and others opinions about wither or not my abilitys are valid are not my concern.I know what im capable of and thats all that matters to me.I do not go about braggin about them nor do i delve into others personal beliefs and issues.Everyone on the face of this earth have some sort of gift and all it takes is practise at the end of the day to make it work ofr urself.I know alot of people who are very dedicated to what they do and for that they get my up most respect.Not everyone can master certain things but thats just life for ya we cant do everything because think about it if we could i think life would be prity boring and there would be nothing to work to,nothing to ambrace and say wow i did that!I have the satisfaction of knowing my gifts are here for a reason and i work with them with the respect they grace me with.
Darklin

[Zahaqiel]

I do agree that some people have talents that go beyond what others can hope for... but in the same breath, it's the level of ability in those talents that cannot be achieved, not the ability to do anything wrt that particular talent.
I regularly deal with spirits. I suck at being able to see them, but if I try I can. A friend of mine sees them ridiculously clearly, without trying (independently we come to the same conclusions - except that she always picks up more than I do - we've tested this a lot). And yet another friend of mine, who has been trying to do what we can do for considerably longer than we have, and with more study and research into this sort of thing than either of us have done, and comes up with absolutely nothing.

The mesmer is similar to hypnosis, in that hypnosis bypasses the conscious mind. However, it doesn't induce a trance-like state wherein they are completely suggestable, it merely alters what a person wants to do (redirecting their focus away from something). The power range is rather limited in comparison, but it's much easier to perform than a full hypnotic trance (I've done those too). Hypnosis actually requires a technique, the mesmer just requires voice and eyes.

Non-existance of evidence is not evidence of non-existance. Just means you've yet to encounter any evidence either way. Scepticism shouldn't be your baseline conclusion - agnosticism should be.

[theoutsider]

Sorry, but the lat statement is false, in my worldview. When all else is equal, I have to use Occams Razor to determine the value of an idea. How many extra assumptions do I need to make for this theory to work? That number is inversly proportional to the value of the theory. This is simply because the more I have to assume the data will show something, the less likely it is that I would not have some of that confirming data.

That being said, there are literally millions of dollars waiting for someone who can provide that data wrt paranormal activities. why is it still there, waiting for someone to take it? We could theorize that people with paranormal abilities are 'better people' and would not use their abilities for monetary gain(a bad theory), or that the presence of skeptics causes problems with paranormal activities (a not bad theory), or that those paranormal abilities are so extrodinarily rare as to basically not exist(a good theory).

Why do I rank those theories like that? Well the first one involves a large number of assumptions (these abilities are granted to people, they are based on some arbitrary 'good' which also requires the assumption that 'good' is arbitrary, people who are trying to prove themselves are all delusional but not those that are not trying to prove themselves, ect), while the second one has few assumptions (These abilities exist, they are 'belief based', and that's about it.). The last one, however, only has one assumption: people want to be special. And that's something that I don't even think is really an assumption, but a fact...

Bring me proof and I'll reward you hansomely. But without proof, I'm stuck thinking that it is possible but less likely than the alternative... a skeptical para-agnostic, I guess.

And my appologies for dragging this topic so far off topic... If you want to discuss this further, PM or start a new thread...

[Zahaqiel]

Value is subjective, reality is not, hence why Occam's Razor doesn't always work in the real world. Until you have evidence either way, any conclusion is nothing but a guess.

I'll end it there.

[RevDevon]

see new thread ...with new question